DM challenge (my players stay out!)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
Well, I just used these yesterday on my PCs (mostly newbies) in order to help them learn group tactics. They're basically one of the more powerful mercenary bands that was after my PCs.

What level and size was the PC group? The group tactics reason is primarily why I'm having this encounter, IMC. The PCs are powerful individually, but don't fight in unison or tactically, and that puts them at a comparative disadvantage. Oddly enough, the NPCs in my campaign won't be specifically expecting the PC group, but will actually be setting up an ambush for someone else along the same trail that the party is travelling along.

Company of the Golden Sphere

Rose, Female Elf Fighter 6

Alton, Halfling Rogue 6

Fnipper, Gnome Transmuter 6

Hugo, Human Fighter 6

Mary, Half-Elf Druid 6

If you had to drop one of these five (I'm using four NPCs), which one would you leave out?

Basic plan was for Alton to sneak in the midst of the PCs while under invisibility, preferably on the outer edge of a formation right next to a weaker PC, then let Mary drop an entangle in the middle of the PCs (Fnipper's raven familiar was previously invisible and scouted on the PCs to chart their path) with Alton choosing then to strike with Sneak Attack. Rose readied actions to attack the party's wizard to disrupt her spells, standing just outside the edge of the entanglement effect. Fnipper mainly helped buff and scout (he used Haste on Rose in my game), but also targeted some of the weaker characters with Melf's Acid Arrow and had his raven familiar drop some shocking grasps on trapped people. Hugo basically picked on anyone who made it outside of the entanglement effect, and Mary dominated the ranger's animal companion and used her dire wolf to great effect whenever he made it out of the entangle spell.

Sounds like a pretty good strategy. How well did it work out? In my situation, I'm thinking it might be a lot less effective with four NPCs instead of five. Also, entangle isn't going to work on the trail they're on, but I've got a few plans to get them off it. See details of my NPC and PC group in the next post.
 

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Telperion said:
Agreed: the NPC's are toast if the PC's don't charge. That's one of the reasons why I was a bit sceptical about doing the Mirror Image at the beginning. If the NPC's seem to be out-numbered at the beginning of the fight then the PC's are either going to be very paranoid (are those NPC's high level or what?) or charge them straight away, and think it's an easy fight. That's my experience anyway...

Also I was torn between putting a wizard into the NPC camp, because he could be used to counter spell the worst of the 1st round spells that the PC's are going to cast at the NPC's. But the trouble with that is that a wizard doesn't have so many "safe" spells when it comes to group fights. Too many evocations simply take out both allies and enemies. That's why I sacrificed the wizard for a druid.

Aside from that this could work with a little tweaking. Have fun =).

I decided to retain a wizard, and deal with the problem of area spells by actually taking advantage of them. Throw on some protective spells and then the wizard can sling fireballs and the like around with impunity, and drop them in an area where enemies are mixed with his allies and count on affecting only their foes. Here's the composition of my two groups.

NPCs:
Elf Ftr4/Rgr2 - archer
Human Clr6 - death and evil domains
Human Drd6 - mounted combatant, w. warhorse animal companion
Gnome Wiz6 - evoker (that may change) w. raven animal companion

PCs:
Human Ftr6/Half-dragon1 (taking on the half-dragon template gradually) - big guy with greatsword
Human Clr7 of Pelor - middle-aged guy, poor in combat, good spellcasting
Human Ftr3/Rog4 - Two-weapon fighter
Half-elf Rgr7 - Two-weapon fighter, w. hawk animal companion
Half-elf Drd7 - w. riding dog animal companion
Dwarf Wiz7 - evoker, loves big explosions and typically prepares lots of the same spells
 

I'd do the following:

1. Druid. The most important trick with the druid is to have him be wild shaped into a common bird and then hide in the grasses and use natural spell to toss spells at the foes. Ideally, he'll concentrate on summoning spells and never actually be seen by the PCs. Such an assailant may escape the battle and survive to attack the PCs again and again. His animal companion can either be a horse (ridden by another NPC?) or be something that's good at combat. Note that the bird, flying around casually, can give several moment's notice of the approaching PCs.

Note that if the druid's animal companion is a hawk, you can poison its talons.

2. Barbarian. This is the strength- and con-enhanced, foaming-at-the-mouth hard to kill melee machine; he should be powerattacking with his greataxe to the extent possible. For extra joy, give him one level of rogue and a potion of greater invisibility (or whatever it's called now) for sneak attack fun and a 50% miss chance.

3. Ranger with a bow. He'd ideally stay to the side of combat, peppering assailants with arrow after arrow. Like the barbarian, you can get extra joy by giving him a level of rogue and a potion of greater invisibility; if he stays within 30', each arrow will do sneak attack damage. Use poison arrows.

4. Cleric specializing in buffing spells. The big problem with NPC spellcasters is that they seldom cast all their spells. In this case, have the cleric casting as many spells as possible before combat. By boosting the barbarian's combat ability, you can allow him more effective points to pump into power attack. The cleric can then stand back away from combat on the other side of the spike growth and draw people towards him as the only visible target (other than summoned animals.)

As a tactic, I'd recommend that the ambush begin as soon as the horses hit the spike growth. Target the cleric first and work to take him out as quickly and effectively as possible; once the cleric is down, easy healing disappears.
 
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Here's the party make-up and tactics that I would use.

Human evoker 6 give him a scroll of greater invisiblity to use right before the encounter. Hit the party with ranged attacks and hampering spells slow, fireball,deep slumber, etc. Improved initiative, spell focus, greater spell focus as his main feats.

Elf ranger 6 have the archery combat style and pick the most prevalent races in the party as favored enemies. Give him the improved favored enemy feat. Hit them hard with ranged fire and cast entangle when they try to close. Have a wolf animal companion to back him up in melee.

Human fighter with weapon specialization in spiked chain, combat reflexes and whirlwind attack. Try to have him fairly lightly armored so he can move around.

Human cleric with spell focus and greater spell focus:enchantment.

Have all of them with the most effective buffs placed on them. Cat's grace for ranger, fox's cunning for wizard, etc. Hit the party with ranged fire, area effect spells, and hold person spells. Have the fighter protect the ranger and spellcasters. If you they can afford it, have the wizard cast invisibiliy or even greater invisibility right before the ambush is sprung.
 

Guerilla warfare, 3.5 style: Use the terrain as much as possible. The best possible might be sparsely forested hills or something with plenty of cover to hide or duck in and out but allow easy movement on horseback.

Use 3 deep woods snipers with mounts of their own, invisibility, spider climb and excellent hide abilities. Add in a sorcerer/wizard to add some ranged magic, buffs, and illusions. Have them take Far Shot and have 2 fire from one direction, say to the left and behind the party, that targets their mobility or long range fire-power(casters w/fireball) 1st. They should be far, far out to use the Far Shot without too much penalty to strike at the relatively lightly armored casters or mounts. Have them on the ground and ready to move once the PCs start in their direction. With one(or two) sniper(s) remaining in the tree tops above as spotters for the ground crew, they will be available to strike the PCs once they turn their backs or better, separate. Take a few feats to help with this, like Rapid or Many Shot. If they do separate, do not (as a DM) allow them to triangulate their locations by having them see where the 'hidden' second attacks are coming from. Have the ground snipers keep firing until the treetop spotters signal them that the party is coming towards them. Have them ride on their own mounts perpendicular to the proverbial path the party is on, and if they turn back to face the 2nd attack from the treetop snipers they each quaff a potion of invisibility, and the ground snipers set up to fire again from horseback. Once a mount or PC falls, they will need to start the healing process - then target the cleric while she does this. The cleric will probably get there in time to heal whomever back to full, at which time the attack ceases for a minute, allowing you to lapse out of rounds to give them a sense of security but still keep the buffs. Then repeat the ground attack from a different location until they start chasing again, which is when the treetop snipers should change locations before firing again. Pump up the ground sniper's ride, hide and wilderness skills, and the treetop guys should have excellent move silently and climb (with spider climb) instead of ride.

The whole idea is to avoid melee combat, taking out the abilities of probably half the party. Let the magic-user fling some spells out blindly at a few extra horses (the treetop snipers' original ride) that purposefully cross the path for them to chase and discover the dead decoy horses. Keep the cleric using up spells to heal and make the casters waste spells in the wrong direction. Use alchemists fire as a distractor if the party gets too close to one set of snipers, and if they corner the treetop snipers use tanglefoot to keep them from ascending.

A sixth level sorcerer will be able to send out a fireball, which may be the best 1st strike from max distance. I think Magic missle is a long-range spell, which would be more annoying than anything else, wearing them down or making the cleric use spells. Keeping the party frustrated will lead them to make more mistakes and take bigger chances (such as splitting up or go hunting on her own) which may be a big mistake if they are trying to catch up to the ground snipers on horseback as they keep getting beaten up. The players won't like you when they can get to within 5' of your snipers, but tell them it's a weakness they need to solve.

Think of using the 0-level spells to attact their attention too, like ghost sound, dancing lights or flare. You could use Message once too, just to freak them out. Once you take out a warhorse or two, they will be more handicapped in movement - keep up the sniping by the ground team until the party splits up to chase them, and have the treetop team rain arrows on those left behind.

A good ranged build would be a fighter - each would get 6-7 feats to spend on Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization, or even boost the reflex save.
For the sorcerer, add Enlarge Spell (Magic Missle, Fireball). Take spells like Mount, Fog Cloud, Silent/Minor Image and Ventriloquism to throw them off, and Protection from Arrows if they have a good ranged guy in the group. You could take web, but for this 7th party it would be more of an annoyance than a threat. Take cat's grace instead to add to her friend's attacks. Definitely use Fireball, as 6d6 of damage in one initial strike when they are unprepared (reduced Reflex save?) should be a nice way to zap the casters and healing fast.

Things to worry about:
The casters might be able to summon some pretty fast critters to chase down your guys, like a hippogriff or elemental. Watch out for them and it may be best to target fire at the summoned monster in order to keep their location safe, but don't hang around long enough for the party to catch up.
A warhorse can run pretty far in a round, so keep a safe distance and accept the penalties associated with the range increments. A negative equal or greater to your BAB would be better than giving up the safety of distance. If one of them is hasted or there is a super-fast monk, you may have to back up even more after the initial fireball.
An arcane caster may be able to take down your mounts in a single fireball blast, so it may be necessary to have a back-up mount (like the 2 for the treetop crew) or separate. If the party is getting close to either set of your guys, have that pair separate and bring in the other set to do damage or draw them off.

Phew. I have been brewing something like this to run in a few sessions, and I hope you have fun with it.
 

Piratecat said:
Note that if the druid's animal companion is a hawk, you can poison its talons.

I love the way you think :D

2. Barbarian. This is the strength- and con-enhanced, foaming-at-the-mouth hard to kill melee machine; he should be powerattacking with his greataxe to the extent possible. For extra joy, give him one level of rogue and a potion of greater invisibility (or whatever it's called now) for sneak attack fun and a 50% miss chance.

Can't use greater invisibility, since one restriction (see first post) is that the NPCs don't get access to any spells they couldn't cast. Still, a hasted 6th lvl barbarian is probably mean enough.

3. Ranger with a bow. He'd ideally stay to the side of combat, peppering assailants with arrow after arrow. Like the barbarian, you can get extra joy by giving him a level of rogue and a potion of greater invisibility; if he stays within 30', each arrow will do sneak attack damage. Use poison arrows.

You really like the poison, don't you?

4. Cleric specializing in buffing spells. The big problem with NPC spellcasters is that they seldom cast all their spells. In this case, have the cleric casting as many spells as possible before combat. By boosting the barbarian's combat ability, you can allow him more effective points to pump into power attack. The cleric can then stand back away from combat on the other side of the spike growth and draw people towards him as the only visible target (other than summoned animals.).

That's what I'm going for with a human cleric of a death deity. Good hps and a solid AC, not to mention a nice set of spells to sling around, even at 6th lvl. And the death touch domain ability is just perfectly designed for a previously wounded enemy.

As a tactic, I'd recommend that the ambush begin as soon as the horses hit the spike growth. Target the cleric first and work to take him out as quickly and effectively as possible; once the cleric is down, easy healing disappears.

That's the basic plan, although I've thought of a way to have the party hit with the ambush when they're boxed in with the spike growth area (the druid can cover six 20 ft squares with it, which can create some interesting shapes), forcing them to ride right into it.
 

Shazman said:
Here's the party make-up and tactics that I would use.

Human evoker 6 give him a scroll of greater invisiblity to use right before the encounter. Hit the party with ranged attacks and hampering spells slow, fireball,deep slumber, etc. Improved initiative, spell focus, greater spell focus as his main feats..

No greater invisibility (see restrictions), but I've got him with a couple of the feats you mentioned (not Gr. Spell Focus, since it has a caster lvl prerequisite which he doesn't meet IMC).

Elf ranger 6 have the archery combat style and pick the most prevalent races in the party as favored enemies. Give him the improved favored enemy feat. Hit them hard with ranged fire and cast entangle when they try to close. Have a wolf animal companion to back him up in melee...

I had decided to go with a Ftr4/Rgr2 with Specialization and favored enemy:humans, but now that you mention it, perhaps a Rgr6 might be better. Having access to entangle will mean one less spell the druid needs to cast at the start of the fight. And the animal companion would be handy too.

Have all of them with the most effective buffs placed on them. Cat's grace for ranger, fox's cunning for wizard, etc. Hit the party with ranged fire, area effect spells, and hold person spells. Have the fighter protect the ranger and spellcasters. If you they can afford it, have the wizard cast invisibiliy or even greater invisibility right before the ambush is sprung.

I decided to have them set up under an Invisibility Sphere to start of the ambush. After that, I figure I can keep the party bsy enough where a lack of invisibility won't be a problem.
 

MarauderX said:
Guerilla warfare, 3.5 style: Use the terrain as much as possible. The best possible might be sparsely forested hills or something with plenty of cover to hide or duck in and out but allow easy movement on horseback.

Use 3 deep woods snipers with mounts of their own, invisibility, spider climb and excellent hide abilities.

Excellent tactics. I can't use this one (esp. not 3 Deepwood Snipers) for this specific ambush, partly due to the restriction of no PrCs and the fact that the area won't be very conducive to it, but I can see this being very handy for the future. The party is probably going to head for a forested area where a large elven community is engaged in a pitched battle with a mostly undead army led by a vampire. So there might be more than a few former elven archers who've been killed and "converted" to the dark side.

Phew. I have been brewing something like this to run in a few sessions, and I hope you have fun with it.

Thanks a lot. I intend to :D
 

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. We're playing this Saturday, but I don't think the PCs will get to the point where this ambush will occur. I figure it should happen next weekend, and I'll make sure to post a writeup of what happens when it does.

Anyone else care to suggest a horribly dastardly idea I missed?
 

Just got back from the session. By the end of the fight, four of the PCs were dead, with the Rgr on his feet, wounded and blinded with a Glitterdust spell, and the druid, flat on her face with 10 hp left. Plus the riding dog, which was the healthiest of the lot. Of the ambushers, the druid was dead and the other three were on their feet, all wounded but in much better case than the PCs.

In desperation, one of the surviving PCs used a very powerful single-use magic item that prevented the "deaths" (a type of epic Magic Jar which they got as a gift from an avatar of Zagyg, a very capricious deity of magic in the Greyhawk campaign), and the surviving NPCs decided to quit while they were ahead and fled. If not for that item, it was a TPK.

The PCs are embarrassed, upset and out for blood, or they would be, if it wasn't for the fact that the magic item brought their souls back to the wrong bodies. Ah, what a tangled web we weave :D

Thanks for all the help!
 

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