DM Help: Alignment Woes

[Olive]

I'd be sorely tempted to have a divine visit from whoever is the god of law. "Oh, really?" But that's probably too much, unless the character's gone way over the top.

perhaps an inevitable, to point out that ruling by decree isn't lawful per se, and could very well be chaotic.

 

[S'mon]

Change his alignment to LE. Unless he's changing his laws on a whim or giving his enforcers carte blanche to do as they wish, he's not acting chaotically. Laws don't have to be fair or reasonable to be laws, in a world where the LE alignment is possible. Judge Dredd carries out summary judgements and he seems pretty Lawful to me!

 

[Vaxalon]

Another way to handle it is to have a cleric of a lawful evil god set up a cult in his town. "Hey, we like the way you're doing things... might makes right! If you can take it, it's yours! You're our boy!"

Clearly, talking to him in the DM - to - player channel is not productive. Start communicating to him in the game. The idea of paladins snooping around is a good one, too. I would do that.

 

[hammymchamham]

I'd second a Paladin comming in

 

[pennywiz]

I had some fun tonight! I let him know (on the phone before the game) that his character was slipping toward evil. I decided that the things he was doing might not be veering from law as long as he doesn't keep changing the laws he makes.

I set two new things in motion also. I had a couple of his 'police' start setting up their own extortion racket with the local businesses and I had a couple of paladins from the main church on that side of the kingdom come through his town on the way back from a crusade in the wilds beyond his town (that was the last event before we packed it in for the night). Any suggestions on how overt the paladins should be? Should they stick around and ask lots of questions or be silent and make a report back at the temple on their findings? Anything else I should do?

(EDIT) Forgot that I also had a young cleric who is lawful evil apply with his right hand man to start organizing a church in the town. The right hand man told him about it but he hasn't decided if it is allowed yet.

 

[LuYangShih]

That depends on how obvious the mistreatment of the population is. If the "police" are walking around doing this in broad daylight, while the Paladins are around, I would expect them to put a stop to it. Slavery is unquestionably evil, and executions without a trial would be heavily disapproved of by any Paladin. If there are hints, they might check it out, but I wouldn't expect them to launch a heavy investigation in this case unless they find evidence of the application of the "law" in this province.

By the way, I'd like to say I think this character is acting far more like a Chaotic character than a Lawful character. He doesn't hold trials, he doesn't hold his men accountable for their actions, and he doesn't seem to have a very organized approach to the way he runs the town. He also seems to view the town as his own personal playground, which again likens him more to a Chaotic character than a Lawful character, in my opinion. Judging from the actions you've described here, I'd say he's either NE or CE.

Also, I don't see why you wouldn't immediately drop him to evil for infractions like this. Executions without a trial is tantamount to murder, and enslaving someone is one of the few crimes comprable with the taking of a life. This isn't a few petty acts of evil, this is evil that warrants execution or life imprisonment in most systems of justice in both real and fantasy words.

 

[pennywiz]

He maintains that as long as he is consistent with the laws and that he doesn't change them on a whim, it is indeed lawful. I grant you that they are harsh, and some are saying they border on evil, but they are laws and he is enforcing them without prejudice. We're gaming again real soon so I'll be sure to let everyone knows how it goes.

I can't really have the town people rebel because, to be honest, the people that he removed from power so he could take over didn't have any laws and killed people at random. The town folks are looking on him with relief. He might be oppressive but he is fair and as long as they stay in line they are protected and alive.

I'm starting to sound like my player but I think if I present things the way he sees them you might help me find some flaws in his logic.

 

[smetzger]

1) Alignment interpretations are highly opinionated.

2) Alignment is absolute.

3) The DM determines opinion on alignments is what counts.

4) There are no penalties for this character to change alignment. The situations where his alignment comes into play are minimal (he is the target of an alignment focused spell like detect evil or prot frm evil or he has a magic item with an alignment.

Does it really matter what his alignment is? Just have the world around him react logically to his actions.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Another way to handle it is to have a cleric of a lawful evil god set up a cult in his town. "Hey, we like the way you're doing things... might makes right! If you can take it, it's yours! You're our boy!"

Vax, I think your suggestion here is the best one yet.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Does it really matter what his alignment is? Just have the world around him react logically to his actions.

I'm curious as to what the other players think of him? I mean, if I was a companion of this guy, I certainly wouldn't want to live near him! Too much risk of getting a run-in with the over-enthusiastic local policemen.

And whilst he may be arguing for his lawfulness, which is fine, what does he have to say about his slide towards evil? You haven't said anything about that.

A simple way to look at it, I would suggest, is that if you wouldn't want to live there, the ruler has a strong likelihood of being evil