DM Hindsight is 20/20...

[Taed]

I'm a fairly new DM and I missed a great dramatic opportunity yesterday that I didn't recognize until this morning, so I thought I'd start a thread so that everyone can share their regretful hindsight. I'm not looking for bad rules calls, this is for missed story opportunities.

We're working our way through _Keep on the Shadowfell_ and the party meets up with Balgron the Fat, who is more of a bad-ass gambler who rules the goblins with an iron fist than in the written module. He also had a +1 Great Hunger Greataxe instead of that silly magic wand in his chest.

The party had gone through the level "the wrong way", and had cleared it out before meeting up with him. So, Balgron had plenty of warning that another damned set of adventurers had gotten past the guards and was prepared for their eventual meeting.

The PCs are stupidly arguing outside the door about how they should burst in, and so Balgron hears them and opens the door and announces "Welcome! We've been waiting for you!" He says that he's willing to offer then a deal -- a one-on-one fight between him and their strongest. If he wins, well, they were going to kill the party anyway, at which point he opens the door all the way to reveal 20 more goblins behind him. But if their champion wins, he'll let them leave alive. (Of course, he would do no such thing, but the party doesn't know that.) But he warns them -- he's never lost a fight.

After a bit of bickering between The Fighter and The Barbarian, it's The Barbarian that steps up to the plate. The Barbarian and Balgron get into a verbal pissing match which culminates in The Barbarian announcing to Balgron one of his quirks, "See these ears on my necklace? They didn't come from Dungeon-Mart, you know!"

The battle commences, and after two misses by The Barbarian and two nice hits by Balgron, The Barbarian is down.

What I did:
Balgron laughs and kicks the dying PC, "THAT was your BEST? Come on, people; give me a decent fight! I'll give you another chance -- how about you, Fighter?" (At which point The Fighter does manage to best him, but then all the goblins, after being in shock over their fallen leader, procede to either attack the party anyway or run away, happy to be free of the tyrant.)

What I should have done:
Balgron leans over and slices off The Barbarian's ear, announcing, "I do believe that I'll start a necklace of my own."

I totally blew that -- it would have been a great unforgettable moment in the life of that cocky PC and the party.

Anyone else have stories to share of dramatic moments that they blew?

 

[WanderingMonster]

I wouldn't say you blew it. First off, are your players more attached to their characters or the story? If the former, then messing with the barbarian's ear and humiliating him isn't probably the best way to go anyway. If the latter, then you might have missed an opportunity, but in the end learned a lesson you won't squander next time!

One thing that might have been cool is to let the goblin start to cut off his ear, but then give the barbarian a temporary Daily Power along the lines of "Reversal of Fortune" that lets him interrupt the action, spend a healing surge, and allow him to trade places with the target. You know, pulling victory from the jaws of defeat. The party can now walk away with ears and honor intact, but the barbarian has a nasty scar and a big old grudge.

Any time you can let the players win without it feeling cheap is a good DM moment.

 

[Dayspire]

I disagree with WanderingMonster. Humiliating? Seriously?

Any barbarian worth his salt would have looked to that scar later and taken it for what it was worth: a lesson.

 

[Kaldaen]

I've got one from a Star Wars game a couple of years ago. I had been running an original campaign for my friends for a few months, and they had taken their characters from level 7 to 10 in that time.

The story had the players investigating the murder of a Jedi Master who had been operating undercover among one of the larger Hutt crime syndicates. Since the characters had only just been promoted to Knight status, and the perpetrators had taken down a Master, I created a couple of NPC allies that would travel with them. I planned to use them as vehicles for in-universe knowledge, to get them access to information that was above their pay-grade, to give them a nudge in the right direction if the players were stuck, and to back them up in combat if necessary.

One was a Jedi Investigator, and she had been the handler for the undercover Master who had been slain. I ended up using this character a lot when interacting with the players, and they really enjoyed her role in the story. Even after their characters outgrew the need for an NPC bodyguard, they still insisted on bringing her along as the story advanced.

The other character was nowhere near as well developed. She was a bounty hunter, and the party ran into her when they tried to apprehend the mark she was trying to collect on. Beyond that, I really didn't have much of a background for her. The players invited her along anyway, but they didn't like her as a character nearly as much as the Jedi Investigator.

Three levels and many sessions later, this bounty hunter was still tagging along with the party, and I still didn't have a really solid reason for her being there. Then the party started looking into a story hook that involved the backstory of one of the player characters. The player had wanted to have a ship so he could be the group's pilot, so he wrote that he had worked for a hyperspace freight service, got tired of answering to a boss and stole the ship. The players discovered that said boss may have had some information that could help them in their investigation, so they went to the headquarters where the pilot used to work. Just in case the boss was holding a grudge, they came prepared to pay for the stolen ship.

What I should have done: Upon landing at the spaceport for the freight company, I should have had the bounty hunter insist on going with the players to see the owner. When they entered the main office, I would have had the boss exchange pleasantries with the party, disarming them with kindness, and acting as though he was willing to let bygones be bygones. Then I would have had him start addressing the bounty hunter on very familiar terms, at which point she would have drawn her weapons and held the group's pilot at gunpoint, stating that she was there to collect the bounty that the boss had put out for him.

What I actually did: I left her on the ship. I didn't realize the potential there until we had taken a break for dinner that evening. By that time the players had met with the boss, smoothed things over with him by purchasing the deed to the ship, and then picked his brain about the things he might have known regarding their investigation.

As the story moved forward, the bounty hunter NPC became less and less of a factor, until she faded out of the collective consciousness entirely. We finished the arc that she was involved in some time ago, but I may try to reintroduce her as a story-driving character if we revisit the campaign.

 

[WanderingMonster]

I disagree with WanderingMonster. Humiliating? Seriously?

Any barbarian worth his salt would have looked to that scar later and taken it for what it was worth: a lesson.

YMMV of course. Any barbarian worth his salt would learn the lesson, but it's not the DM's job to teach lessons. It's the DMs job to know what's fun for his players. If he's familiar enough with them to know that a missing ear is going to be part of a great story moment, then great!

However, in my experience, players hate two things: being rendered impotent by stripping them of freedom/powers/gear, and messing with the image of their character. What may be a great roleplaying opportunity, may end up being not very fun. I've seen it time and time again.

That being said, the most important thing for DMs is to know their players.

I hope that clears up my point!

 

[TarionzCousin]

YMMV of course. Any barbarian worth his salt would learn the lesson, but it's not the DM's job to teach lessons. It's the DMs job to know what's fun for his players. If he's familiar enough with them to know that a missing ear is going to be part of a great story moment, then great!

However, in my experience, players hate two things: being rendered impotent by stripping them of freedom/powers/gear, and messing with the image of their character. What may be a great roleplaying opportunity, may end up being not very fun. I've seen it time and time again.

That being said, the most important thing for DMs is to know their players.

Exactly. Would the Barbarian's player have thought it was a cool scar or been upset that the DM had "kicked him when he was down"?

 

[Oryan77]

messing with the image of their character.

This was one of my first hard learned lessons as a DM. I made the mistake of taking alignment too literally and used it as an excuse to transform an elf ranger into a hulking white beast (sort of like Thing from Fantastic Four). In my defense, I thought the player would find it really interesting, and I gave him a special camouflage ability. But the player didn't think it was as cool of a concept as I thought it was

As cool as removing the ear would have been story wise, as others said, you need to think about if the player will be ok with it or not. Personally, something like that would be fine with me as a player because I find it more realistic & it adds character to my PC (and a good story to tell). But most players can't handle losing a freaking magic item & throw a tantrum about it, so you just gotta know the player.

But to answer your question, yeah, I always realize after a game that I should have handled a situation differently and I missed out on it. On the flip side though, more often I realize after a session that I can do something in the next session that will be fantastic based on what happened in a previous session.

This happened again this very last session. The PCs used a magic item to create a zombie follower. Then they had it follow a moving caravan while they talked to the patrons of the caravan. They even put a sign on the zombie that said something like, "Harmless, do not touch him please."

As lame as that was, I was thinking that I had to have the caravan guards kill the zombie because they don't know who ordered it to follow the caravan, and because...it's a dang zombie! But I recently thought that instead of doing that (and upsetting the players), when the PCs retrieve the zombie, they are going to find it covered in splats of mud, pebbles stuck in it's flesh, rotten vegetables hanging off it, & x-bow bolts & a couple arrows protruding from his body. Rather than kill it, the guards decided to use it as target practice for fun. It won't be dead so the players can't complain, it'll be amusing & unexpected, and I get to roleplay the guards boasting about it which will be fun for me

 

[Nifft]

IMHO the only bad thing you did was setting up a situation where one player plays and everyone else watches.

If it had been a skill challenge with the rest of the (non-combatant) PCs and goblins actively trying to cheat, or prevent cheating, then that would have been awesome.

Anyone have ideas for how to model cheating in a one-on-one duel?

Cheers, -- N

 

[knightemplar]

If it had been a skill challenge with the rest of the (non-combatant) PCs and goblins actively trying to cheat, or prevent cheating, then that would have been awesome.

Anyone have ideas for how to model cheating in a one-on-one duel?

Hard Perception check to cast reflected light into the opponent's eyes granting a -2 circumstance bonus to the opponent's next attack would be a suggestion from me.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Yelling at or insulting the opponent off of his game and distracting them enough to possibly get skewered (intimidation).

Providing timely advice, "Look out behind you!", to your ally (sense motive).

Sliding a weapon across the floor to a pinned ally or slipping some marbles onto the floor unnoticed (sleight of hand?).

Just to throw a couple ideas out there for a skill-challenge and a duel. Failure means their champion is defeated and combat begins, success means the party's champion wins and combat begins!