DM in way over my head

[S'mon]

I would strongly advise against running 4e online with 8 players. I'm running 4e online with 2 players, 3 is the most I'd be happy to handle. 4 - well, maybe, but it's really pushing it. I ran C&C online with 5 players and that was too many - and C&C is much simpler than 4e D&D.

I'd also strongly advise against using most WoTC modules, which are very combat heavy and in online play give little you can't get in WoW.

With 8 players you want a simple, easy to run system like Labyrinth Lord/Red Box Basic D&D. You want a set-up that plays to the strengths of the format, adventures with lots of in-character roleplay. Tactical grid-based play should be avoided, and number crunching kept to a minimum.

Adventures should be short. Apart from the absence of roleplay opportunities, the Dungeon Delves would be good for 4e. Maybe if you set them within a larger world such as the Nentir Vale from the 4e DMG, that would work.

But you absolutely must avoid a dry, number-crunching, mechanistic game of combat. That can be good fun round a table, but online it's not going to hold a candle to WoW.

 

[S'mon]

Be prepared to lose a lot of time setting up your VTT.

I'm not familiar with Screenmonkey, but in my experience (Klooge, Fantasy Grounds and d20 Pro) the first time you use a VTT it takes a few hours to get everybody hooked up and running. Figure out you what you need to do to let your players connect -- all three of the VTT's I've tried required me to work around my firewall with a DMZ or port forwarding. Some VTT's will crash out if everybody isn't using the same version. Be prepared to repeat your IP address over and over.

Make sure you know the basics of how your VTT works. How do you import maps? What about tokens for PC's and monsters? Does it have fog of war? Does it have a dice roller? Does it use lots of macros? Expect your players to spend a while just fooling around with the program.

I've been playing online for several years now, and I really enjoy it. But the initial setup period is a real pain in the butt and carries a high learning curve.

This just convinces me more that I was right to insist on ignoring all that stuff and just using a chatroom-with-dice-roller for all my live online gaming.

 

[jbear]

"Keep on the Shadowfell" is a wretched intro to tabletop gaming. It has a few good points, but it's mostly just a hackfest, and a sloggy, tedious one at that. If I were an MMO player and my first experience with tabletop was KotS, I'd be left wondering what the point was - if all I'm going to do is hack my way through monsters, why not play a game that handles the number-crunching for me?

Unfortunately, from what I've heard, most published 4E adventures are similar. If anyone here can suggest one that isn't, go with that; otherwise, pick up a good adventure from a different edition, and convert on the fly (4E makes this very easy). I recommend "Red Hand of Doom."

Im not sure this is such sound advice if you already feel in over your head. the last thing you want to add to your worry is converting a module from an earlier edition. this may be something to consider to do in the future if things go well and you are comfortable with the system and familiar with your sources.

8 is very tricky. splitting is a good plan. maybe some wont be interested after giving it a whirl... Some of the magic is going to be inevitably lost, i imagine, not playing in person, so going from WoW to dnd improvisation online... may not be everyone's cup of tea. If everyone is interested... gulp...do you have time to run two groups?

Although from an experienced gamer's point of view Keep of the Shadowfell might seem 2 dimensional, gamers new to tabletop RPG ma not have the same perception.
Personally, when I use ready made modules, I take them as a base. As they game plays I try and weave in my own flavour, building on what's already there. It's also nice to let your players inspire the evolution of the story, be it changing elements of the story following things they show interest in investigating, or playing off their suspicions as to what is going on. That is the beauty of dnd. you're not limited to mindlessly running through the motions of playing out the adventure written in the module. you can let your imagination bring it to life and give it more flavour and depth. that process can happen as you play, between one session and the next.

Its a bit like having a solid piece of already cooked meat. Add spices and condiments to your taste.

There are some great threads on what some people have done with KotS, especially LostSouls thread called something like Sandboxing in the Nentir Vale... maybe someone savvy could post a link.

RPG maptool (is that the right name) seems like a pretty solid engine that can deal with grid combat fairly well. If they are coming from WoW, they are going to want a decent amount of hack 'n slash i'd imagine... could be wrong. Anyway, good luck, and let us know how it went. I'm curious.

 

[S'mon]

As a newbie 4e GM, I've found running a converted 3.5 module in 4e to be very easy. I just choose appropriate looking monster stats out of the 4e MM. In extremis I reskin (giant weasels become wolves, mechanically). The only challenge was treasure, 4e magic items are different than 3e - eg scrolls & wands are very different.

I think doing a conversion, it's a lot easier to balance the threat level than when running an actual 4e adventure. It's a lot easier for me to make those hobgoblins into minions when they're not already statted as soldiers.

Edit: One thing about 4e, it's very robust. I can use 9th level monsters on 2nd level PCs without getting a TPK.

 

[amerigoV]

RPG maptool (is that the right name) seems like a pretty solid engine that can deal with grid combat fairly well. .

Maptool from RPTool.net. For the very basics, it is good once you get your port open to allow connections. Once you figure out what the heck you are doing, Fog of War rocks (the PCs can only see what the lightsource/token position lets them).

Someone on their boards already put Shadowfell into Maptools, so that is a good option. You might just narrow the focus of the adventure so as not to make it such a grind (maybe "break up" the dungeon into sections with their own little stories).

Here is one piece of advice to pass to the WOW players that I gave -- PnP is a different medium, much like a movie or a book. D&D is the novel version vs. a Movie version that WOW represents. My player grok'd that immediately and it help him get into the game.

 

[zenram]

My advice: Tell them "OK, but give me a little time to work on it". You cannot rush yourself.

That's the best you can do, and you should get your self some copies of Map tool. XD

One thing about 4e, it's very robust. I can use 9th level monsters on 2nd level PCs without getting a TPK.

Oh my god, how you do that?

 

[Anand]

I also agree with taking your time on DMing. If it is their first experience with a traditional RPG, a bad experience could put them away forever.

Some time to get to know their expectations is also nice. As WoW players, the tactical combat maybe is not appealing compared to role-playing or interacting with puzzles, etc. So try to figure out what they want.

 

[Dausuul]

I also agree with taking your time on DMing. If it is their first experience with a traditional RPG, a bad experience could put them away forever.

Yup, this is the best advice in the thread. Take your time until you feel comfortable with whatever you're going to do.

 

[S'mon]

Oh my god, how you do that?

Well, I keep an eye on the XP total for the encounter, and I haven't used any 9th level Soldiers vs the 2nd level party - when the PCs ran into two Ettins (10th level Soldier Elites) I had delevelled them to 5th.

OTOH 9th level brutes work great vs 2nd level PCs - eg a lone troll supported by an orc raider and orc warrior minion-9s, or a pair of worgs. All have low ACs. The worgs' master, a Deathpriest of Orcus (9th level Controller) was encountered alone and defeated easily although he was quite hard to hit.

1 PC was killed by 2 gargoyles (9th level lurkers) in the same session the PCs defeated the worgs & death priest, but he was dangling on a rope 50' down a 150' cliff and they would have killed him just as easily if they'd been 3rd level.

 

[Armadillo]

I recommend starting off with something simple and building up the complexity over time. The Kobald Hall in the DMG is probably a good start.

The most I've played 4e with is a group of five players plus GM. Eight could work around a table, I'm not sure about online. You're going to need to keep things moving and make sure that everyone stays involved. In a tabletop game, I'd look at designating one or more co-GMs to help with rule decisions and other details. Again, I'm not sure how that would work online.

There a good thread somewhere here on ENWorld about how to streamline KotS to make it fast and fun.

Good luck!