DM overruling a Player's play of his character

[Quasqueton]

Say the PCs are in the middle of a battle. A PC gets hit with a fear effect, fails the save, and flees in terror. When the DM asks, do you scream or cry out anything, the Player says, "No." The PC runs away in silence.

Later (maybe much later), the PC is separated from the group for a few minutes. The PC gets hit with a fear effect, fails the save, and flees off somewhere. There's no one around to see the situation, so the Player says the PCs screams in panic (obviously to either warn the others of danger, or to alert them that he is [about to be] lost).

Should the DM forbid/prevent the scream, based on precedent set for the character? Is it fair? What if the "silent panic" has happened several times (all when a shout wasn't needed and would have made the PC look "weak")?


Say an ambush jumps up and attacks the PCs. A rogue attacks one PC from behind in the surprise round, scoring a hit. When the DM describes the scene as "Horan shouts in pained surprise as the rogue scores a sword thrust from the dark," the Player corrects him saying "Horan wouldn't shout out like that. He's tough."

Later (maybe much later), a tentacle reaches out from the dark behind the group and grabs Horan (at the back of the party) by surprise and hauls him up into the dark cave. The Player wants Horan to shout out his surprise (obviously to either warn the others of danger, or to alert them to his situation).

Should the DM forbid/prevent the shout, based on the precedent set for the character? Is it fair? What if the "silent surprise" has happened several times (all when a shout wasn't needed and would have made the PC look "weak")?


How about other examples of precedent set by the Player's choice -- is a DM within his "rights" to countermand a Player's choice when it looks like the Player is changing his character to metagame?

Is there ever a situation where a DM could/should overrule a Player's play of his character?

Quasqueton

 

[iwatt]

Is there ever a situation where a DM could/should overrule a Player's play of his character?

My answer to your question is a conditional Yes. If the player has set a presedent (sp?) for his PCs behavioru adn then he clearly changes it out of Metagame considerations, I'll probably call him on it. But it has to be a firmly established pattern of behaviour for me to do it. If not, I really don't care. Of course if this behaviour repeats itself over and over my tolerance will diminish.

Do you have a player annoying you with this?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

It is the player's character, the player gets to choose. Besides which, it makes perfect sense for the character to scream for help under the fear effect if there is no one around to help him, and to control his screams when they are.

If a DM overruled my character on something like that I would be tempted to get a new DM - it is my character.

The Auld Grump

 

[Tarangil]

I would say if any effect would take the control of the character out of the players hands he/she/it's essentially an NPC.

That would mean the DM can have control over what happens. But at least take into account the characteristics of the character: Under Fear a Barbarian may make a different exit than a skinny rogue.

I would let both sh*t themselves, during the retreat if the player is adamant on having them be quiet.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I determine the scream based on the extent of the fear effect. You could probably endure being shaken without a girlie yelp, but most othe effects are accompanied by a scream. It's fear, man. You don't have control over your body anymore -- the magic does. Seeing the big strong barbarian degenerate into yelps and howls and tears is part of the psychological weight of the magic. You don't just run away. You become as a child, your inhibitions are destroyed, and your gut instinct (which includes screaming) takes over completely. I don't care if it ruins your stoic cool-guy image. No one is a stoic cool-guy when their lizard-brain is beseiged by supernatural fright.

As far as for general pain and attacks, I'd let them determine. Horan may be a stoic badass, but if he thinks the rest of the party wouldn't know about the attack, he might take an immediate action and go "WATCH OUT!" or something. The scream doesn't have to be one of surprise or fear, just a "TENTACLE!" before he is roped away. Unless the tentacle has the time or grapple check to pin him (and thus shut his mouth), shouting then is fine, even if he usually doesn't yell out.

Fear effects, IMC, are like other magical compulsions, however. I don't care if you're the most antisocial, aloof, spikey-haired antihero, you beocme a gushing schoolgirl meeting the local heartthrob when you have Charm Person on you. If fear can cause a paladin to flee, it can cause a stoic badass to squeal like a stuck pig.

 

[The_Gneech]

Nah, go ahead and let him shout, then have the foes all call him a Girly Man for doing so.

-The Gneech

 

[iwatt]

If fear can cause a paladin to flee, it can cause a stoic badass to squeal like a stuck pig.

Actually it can only cause a level 1 or level 2 paladin to flee...

 

[delericho]

There are only two instances in which I (as DM) would overrule a PC action:

1) The player describes something that the character is simply incapable of doing. For example, the fighter tries to walk up the wall, without some ability or item that allows him to do that. And even then, the player can insist that his character tries, even if he has no chance of success.

2) The character is under some sort of magical compulsion. If a PC is dominated, and commanded to kill a friend, and assuming all relevant saves are failed, I expect the player to play his character accordingly. If he does not proceed to try to kill his friend with every bit as much determination as he would try to kill any other opponent, I will (reluctantly) overrule the action.

Other times, I might ask the player to confirm an action, if I think it's a bit odd or unlikely, or if I think the player has missed some key piece of information. However, I won't overrule an action.

In answer to your questions: I might have overruled the silent alarm in the very first instance (see 2). Having allowed it, however, I would not overrule it in future, nor would I overrule the player's decision to scream at any other instance.

I would not have overruled the player's decision that his character would not cry out (I probably wouldn't even have described him doing so in the first place). I similarly would not overrule the decision to cry out at a later time.

 

[sniffles]

I personally have a big problem with a GM overruling a player's choice of how to play his character. I have a GM who does that if the PC's reaction doesn't suit what he wants to happen.

As far as the screaming issue goes, IRL people don't always scream when they're scared. I doubt that there's anything in the world that would make me scream; I hate to even raise my voice, so if I were pants-pissing scared I probably would lose my voice altogether. So I don't think there's anything wrong with the PC not screaming.

OTOH, if the player's obviously using metagame knowledge to adjust his reactions - 'no one knows where I am so if I don't scream they won't be able to find me' - then it might be appropriate to point out that this doesn't fit with the PC's previous behavior. At least make the player justify it in-character.

 

[painandgreed]

Sounds like the PC did what the PC should do. Fear is not some sort of dominate that dictates all actions of the character. It's perfectly reasonable for a character under fear to yell for help to summon others to do so as that is probably what's going on in his mind.

I can see situations where a DM might overule a PCs actions, mostly due to metagaming. This situation however isn't one of them.