DM overruling a Player's play of his character

[Nomad4life]

If this becomes too big of a problem, I would just set up an in-game mechanic for it; a will or fortitude save or somesuch to avoid screaming. Good "roleplaying" has very little to do with deciding if a character would scream or not, and such distractions probably only serve to slow things down as opposed to making them more enjoyable.

 

[I'm A Banana]

For me, it's about the power of magic in a fantasy world. "Dictating" actions to a PC under the influence of a spell that dictates her actions adds a new layer of fear and loss of control to the spell. It's a gameplay method that reinforces an idea in the world -- that magic is a very powerful force. If you do something that you'd "never in a million years!" do under the influence of a magical force, well, that just shows you how completely and utterly a magical effect can shape the world around it. And the DM taking control of that is reinforcing that loss of control and powerlessness of the PC. It's not just a change of behavior, a different attitude -- it's a forceful manipulation of your thoughts and actions. Magic can turn you into a thing, rather than a sentient being...helps make even first-level spells well-respected for their abilities.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I can see situations where a DM might overule a PCs actions, mostly due to metagaming. This situation however isn't is one of them.

Fixed that for you.

Clearly this is a situation where the player is metagaming. He'd made a specific point, in reponse to a direct question, on multiple occasions, that his character wasn't the girly-scream type. Fine. The point of the fear effect is that temporarily, higher order thought is not happening. Your lizard brain is working enough to keep you from running into a pit of lava, but that's about it. Tactical considerations are out.

 

[William_2]

That version is certainly not clear to me.
There is nothing in the letter or intent of the rules, in my view, that requires players to pre-define their character’s reaction to anything. Does a fear effect take the decision on whether or not to speak away from each character’s player? There is nothing that suggests that to me.
If someone finds themselves experiencing fear under different circumstances, they may well react differently – I think it is THAT which is quite clear.
Yelling some times and not others is not meta-gaming, but role-playing. The character is aware of their circumstances, and has not lost the ability to act on them. The effects of fear are clearly defined, and should not be exaggerated (a frightened character can fight and use special abilities), nor should a DM ever argue that a character, any more than real people, has an obligation to behave consistently.

 

[The_Gneech]

My earlier reply not withstanding, in this particular case, my GMing instinct says, "Who cares? Let him scream or not scream as he chooses." The fear effect doesn't say whether the character yells, giggles in supernatural panic, or recites "Dangerous Dan McGraw." All it says is that he runs away! You've already taken their freedom of choice away on what their action is. Alerting the other characters that his guy has been hit by a fear effect isn't going to keep him from running away.

-The Gneech

 

[Voadam]

All that player's control is how their character's act and react.

I try very hard to limit over-rides to in game supernatural effects, not my perceptions of alignment or character or whatnot.

For instance I have a PC who after questing for a long time is wielding an artefact Sword of Truth in my game. I have to constantly remind him that it does not physically allow him to speak a falsehood, they come out as truths as he knows them. I have to constantly remind him as he makes jokes in character that are technically not truths so he or I restate his statements with truths in them.

In your second example, wouldn't the character want to warn his comrades about the tentacle grabbing creature? Couldn't that be a non-metagame reason for the character to shout in response to that type of ambush?

I might do an over-ride though if out of game anachronisms or silliness started to significantly interfere with the game. I'd probably call a time out, discuss the issue and do a quick rewind.

 

[The_Universe]

I'd probably just ask the player in question to explain to me (in character) why it's ok to scream, now - when it wasn't before. If he's the silent type, he's the silent type, isn't he?

Now, the character might have a perfectly reasonable explanation for why he was silent in the other situations and bawling like a baby in the present one - but I find most metagaming can be shut down if you just call the players on it. They figure it out quickly.

 

[mcrow]

I think there are situtations where players should be overruled, mostly when players attempt things that their characters are not capable of doing. In the above instance I would only over rule a players actions if they are not RPing fear. People react to fear in many different ways. Some scream,wet themselves, cry, run, and/or any other combination of these things. As long as it is something that a fearfull person might do it is ok. Just to say "my character runs away quietly" does not sound like fear to me. I think sometimes players don't RP their characters by taking into consideration their stats. They want to play a PC who is a badass but the charcters stats don't reflect the badass image the player wants. So you get into these situations where they fail a save against fear and all the sudden it's "my character does this becasue he's tough" and I'm like " sorry pal but your character failed his fear test so he's not to worried about looking tough right now" . By definition fear is:

A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger,Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power or A reason for dread or apprehension.

So if a palyer says somthing like the following I get the point that he is scared: my character turns runs like a bat out of hell and screams "lets get the hell out of hear theres a dragon in there!"

but if the player says: My character tells the other characaters that there is a dragon in there a says we should leave.

This would lead me to believe that the character is calm and collected which are not characteristics of a fearfull person.

Would I overrule a player in my above example? Not likely, but I doubt he will be getting any bonus xp for good RPing for this session.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Semantics: Scream v. Shout

I'm generally dead-set against a DM over-riding PC's choices, but this comes down to how the player phrases it: if the normally stoic, tough-guy character keeps a stiff upper lip until there's no audience around, and then cries like a little girl when he can do so privately, fine. I have no problem with a wimp who wants to pretend he's tough - good RP.

If, on the other hand, his choice to vocalize is entirely meta-game, i.e. "There are people around to help, but only if I alert them." then it should be characterized as a "shout," not as a "scream."

[stereotypes]
Wimps and girls scream, at anything from the tarrasque to a common, cute little mouse.

Real Men shout, to command, to intimidate, or to alert others to potential danger.

The British raise one eyebrow ever-so-slightly, and, at an inobtrusive pause in conversation, remark "I say, Mialee, there does appear to be rather a large tarrasque-like creature raising its foot above us. If it's not too much trouble, you might teleport us back home when you get 'round to it. Oh look! I think it's eaten the village burgomaster! No manners at all -- those kaiju, you know. Well, better be getting on with then, Mailee. Look here, Mailee, it won't do any good to go gawking at it. . . "[/stereotypes]

 

[Arnwyn]

Should the DM forbid/prevent the scream, based on precedent set for the character? Is it fair?
Should the DM forbid/prevent the shout, based on the precedent set for the character? Is it fair?

For us, if the inconsistent behavior came up often and a clear pattern was involved, I would call him on it. I'd point out that he is "laughably inconsistent", and to not expect many 'roleplaying opportunities' because of this strange behavior (since it's a waste of my time). He may or may not care - fine with us. We'll never overrule the player's play of his character, though.

Is there ever a situation where a DM could/should overrule a Player's play of his character?

IMC, any mind-affecting spells, for sure. There may be other instances, but none that I can think of offhand.