Or just cap the damage at like 5d6. I mean you really can only be so on fire, before it doesn't matter anymore. Once the target is 100% alchfire covered, the additional flasks don't matter. Now it would probably hit a huge area, and lots of grenadelike missles are flying around, so it could get ugly.
DM Ruling: Telekinesis and Alchemist's Fire
Malin Genie
First Post
This is getting back to the old "hurl 1000 shuriken with Telekinesis" rubbish.
Hurling 1000 shuriken is like hurling a single big pointy thing, which should do damage based on weight, as per the Telekinesis spell guidelines. Unless you hurl each one separately, in which case like any series of attacks you make separate attack rolls at decreasing iterative BAB (allowing a 12th level wizard to hurl 2 shuriken
)
Similarly, hurling 100 vials of alchemist's fire should be like hurling one great big pot (in either case - hit, smash, lots of sticky burning alchemist's fire everywhere.) If you allowed 25 lbs of alchemist's fire in 20 separate vials to deal 20d6 damage, then why couldn't a fighter put 20 vials together in a net and hurl them at an enemy for 20d6 damage? I think instead the damage should scale a bit but not much - after all, as Crothian has said, you can only be so much on fire!)
For balance purposes you might allow it to do half the weight-based damage in the Telekenisis guidelines (i.e. 1d6 per 2 caster levels.) The half damage is because it recurs every round.
Hurling 1000 shuriken is like hurling a single big pointy thing, which should do damage based on weight, as per the Telekinesis spell guidelines. Unless you hurl each one separately, in which case like any series of attacks you make separate attack rolls at decreasing iterative BAB (allowing a 12th level wizard to hurl 2 shuriken
)Similarly, hurling 100 vials of alchemist's fire should be like hurling one great big pot (in either case - hit, smash, lots of sticky burning alchemist's fire everywhere.) If you allowed 25 lbs of alchemist's fire in 20 separate vials to deal 20d6 damage, then why couldn't a fighter put 20 vials together in a net and hurl them at an enemy for 20d6 damage? I think instead the damage should scale a bit but not much - after all, as Crothian has said, you can only be so much on fire!)
For balance purposes you might allow it to do half the weight-based damage in the Telekenisis guidelines (i.e. 1d6 per 2 caster levels.) The half damage is because it recurs every round.
Bonedagger
First Post
It's being burnt by the fire that damage you. Once the target is all engulfed by fire adding more fire will not have any effect on damage per round.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
First, tell the player you'd rather he not use tactics like that. If he insists, let him do it. Whatever creature he hurls the alchemists fire at dies in a burst of fire. Then do the same thing to him the next session. After he rolls up a few characters, he will get the picture and won't use this tactic any more.
thalmin
Retired game store owner
How is he going to keep those flasks from going off prematurely? Carelessness, incoming missile fire, clumsy horse, anything might cause one or more to go off while the flasks are being carried or stored, possibly setting off a chain reaction as item saving throws fail. And if you use fumble rules, ...
Something that comes to my mind in this discussion, where in all of this is the reward for the player for being clever, and coming up whit this plan? It seems that the dm just NEED to find some restigens because it is powerful.
Well, sometimes a player is just smart, and some players can be smart without bending the rules. I for an example, intent to use telekinesis in combination with arrows. Now 20 arrows (longbow) weigh 3lb that means that I can hurl roughly 8*20 arrows, doing 1 d 8 points of dam each, that’s 170d 8. I know that someone would argue that the arrow dos not do any dam in and in it self, that it is the bow that’s doing the dam, but that’s ridicules.
My point is, if you have a clever player that figures out have to take out a batezu in lev1, let him try.
by the way, alchemist's fier dos splashing dam.
Well, sometimes a player is just smart, and some players can be smart without bending the rules. I for an example, intent to use telekinesis in combination with arrows. Now 20 arrows (longbow) weigh 3lb that means that I can hurl roughly 8*20 arrows, doing 1 d 8 points of dam each, that’s 170d 8. I know that someone would argue that the arrow dos not do any dam in and in it self, that it is the bow that’s doing the dam, but that’s ridicules.
My point is, if you have a clever player that figures out have to take out a batezu in lev1, let him try.
by the way, alchemist's fier dos splashing dam.
The_lone_gunman
First Post
Ernst said:Something that comes to my mind in this discussion, where in all of this is the reward for the player for being clever, and coming up whit this plan? It seems that the dm just NEED to find some restigens because it is powerful.
Well, sometimes a player is just smart, and some players can be smart without bending the rules. I for an example, intent to use telekinesis in combination with arrows. Now 20 arrows (longbow) weigh 3lb that means that I can hurl roughly 8*20 arrows, doing 1 d 8 points of dam each, that’s 170d 8. I know that someone would argue that the arrow dos not do any dam in and in it self, that it is the bow that’s doing the dam, but that’s ridicules.
My point is, if you have a clever player that figures out have to take out a batezu in lev1, let him try.
by the way, alchemist's fier dos splashing dam.
I guess my interpretation of "clever" is different than yours. I think this is kinda silly, not particularly clever. The idea that 200 alchemist fires would do more damage than being submerged in Lava or being hit by a meteor swarm at 20th lvl is pretty dumb. I would definately cap the damage, probably around 6 or 8d6.
Also, using telkinesis to toss arrows at someone is not nearly the same as shooting a bow at them. You don't have the power that the bow gives to the arrows, which is why arrows do 1-8 and the damage is considered to come from the bow. I would probably have the arrows thrown with telkinesis do a minimal amount of damage against the person, prob around 1d2 or maybe 1d3. I would also give a -4 to hit someone with them as well (id say using an arrow with telikenisis counts as "exotic weapon" if there ever was one).
You would do better with using telikinesis to pick up a large boulder (find one that is around your max weight allowed) and toss it at someone. or pick them way up in the air and drop them.
TLG
kreynolds
First Post
I don't know about you guys and gals, but I figured an interesting use of hurling 200 flasks of alchemist's fire was just a really slick attack method. I wouldn't stack the damage at all, but the damage isn't the point. How many flasks you throw isn't really the point. The point is creativity.
I envision a stack of these things sitting in a big open room, glamered so that they blend in with their surroundings. Some poor sap enters the room and WHOOSH!!!!...guy gets doused by the stuff, takes only 1d6 points of damage per round, and everything around him, probably in a good ol' 20-foot radius, is on fire. Nowhere to go without the risk of taking more damage. Pretty cool idea.
It's the same priniciple of a trap that tosses a bucket of burning oil on you and the surrounding area, just much more creative, especially if you don't know how to make traps. Honestly though, I think 50 flasks, or even 25, would do the trick just fine.
I envision a stack of these things sitting in a big open room, glamered so that they blend in with their surroundings. Some poor sap enters the room and WHOOSH!!!!...guy gets doused by the stuff, takes only 1d6 points of damage per round, and everything around him, probably in a good ol' 20-foot radius, is on fire. Nowhere to go without the risk of taking more damage. Pretty cool idea.
It's the same priniciple of a trap that tosses a bucket of burning oil on you and the surrounding area, just much more creative, especially if you don't know how to make traps. Honestly though, I think 50 flasks, or even 25, would do the trick just fine.
