DM Schticks That Grind Your Gears

[Piratecat]

Ahh, my Ex-DM ladies and gents. (Thanks for the advice on how to leave to everyone who commented in my previous thread. ) I've unsubscribed from his Yahoo group and we're still butting heads.

This isn't the place to air your dirty laundry, guys. Please take your discussion on your disagreement to email or in person, instead of sniping at one another here.

 

[Crust]

I make magical items hard to come by, and my players hate that.

 

[Hussar]

Thats when you go find another game or DM. If you play by the book, then what happens when a DM runs a combat and rolls hot and ends up with TPK??? Don't you trust your DM to fudge the combat so that you don't have to put a "the 2nd" behind your characters name?

I have zero problem with characters dying. As a DM I roll all combat rolls in the open so my players know exactly when they die.

And, yup, it took me a while cos I'm not the quickest bunny in the forest, but, when the power-tripping DM comes my way, I head out the door. I would do the same if the DM "saved" my character as well. I should be able to trust that the DM's style of play will not diverge greatly from expectations without prior notice. I should be able to trust that the DM won't drop giant flaming boogers on my character for no reason. Beyond that, what trust issues are there?

TheShaman - power tripping player? Huh? When the DM controls every facet of the game other than that player's character and even then has veto control over all elements of that character, how can you have a power tripping player? This is something I've never understood. I'm the DM, I'm entitled to say no. The rules say so and gaming conventions say so. What power is there for the player to trip on?

 

[Keifer113]

I'm not exactly sure what a "mainstream" player is, Keifer113, but you've definitely hit on the schtick that turns my tranny to filings...

Story Protection for Characters
I'm here to play a game in which character death is sometimes determined by the luck of the dice, not to see your pet plot line through to the grand finale. Luck is a part of the game - don't rob me of that, either good or bad.

While I agree that sometimes death does happen, and it is due to bad luck, I think a good DM knows when not to allow death or TPK. Like I said...not in the first encounter, and not right before the big final fight or dramatic moment, unless it is significant.

I don't want to have my players have to write "The 2nd after" a characters name after spending 2 hours + coming up with said character. Nor do I want a player to miss out on the ending.

That being said, if in the middle of the adventure it looks like characters are going to die, then let the dice fall where they may.

A good DM knows how to juggle character death for player enjoyment. My group spent almost 2 years playing a campaign, and my PC died right before the end. I got to run a NPC cleric, who made a significant contribution to the final fight, but for me, I didn't really have the satisfaction of victory. It wasn't the DM's fault my character died. He did have an open roll policy at the time, which meant all his rolls were seen. Now he only openly rolls if it will mean a death or significant event, which increases the drama.

Remember, this isn't about your story, its the story the players make. Of course there is no fun without risk, but at the same time, you don't want them to miss out. If my players ended up in a heroic last stand and were wiped out and didn't finish the mission, at least they would have a great memory.

 

[Keifer113]

I'm not exactly sure what a "mainstream" player is, Keifer113, but you've definitely hit on the schtick that turns my tranny to filings...

Story Protection for Characters
I'm here to play a game in which character death is sometimes determined by the luck of the dice, not to see your pet plot line through to the grand finale. Luck is a part of the game - don't rob me of that, either good or bad.

As an aside, to me a mainstream player is someone who would be upset after spending 2+hours making a character, then painting a mini, or finding a pic, or some other cool character fluff, only to see his character die in the first encounter on the first d20 roll.

Hey that actually happened to me once. Cept I was pushed into a pit.

 

[Sejs]

Wait, how is this bad? I could see where it would get annoying if the DM consistently and systematically annihilated everything from your backstory, essentially leaving your character's history nothing but an empty shell, but, otherwise, how is involving a character's backstory in the game a bad thing?

Nah, you answered it in your first sentance. Constant and systematically. Occasionally using the backstory as a hook is dandy - good, even. But when every single loved one you have is only ever used to be thrown to the wolves, it gets rather old quick.

 

[The Shaman]

TheShaman - power tripping player? Huh? When the DM controls every facet of the game other than that player's character and even then has veto control over all elements of that character, how can you have a power tripping player? This is something I've never understood. I'm the DM, I'm entitled to say no. The rules say so and gaming conventions say so. What power is there for the player to trip on?

A power-tripping player, IMX, is one who doesn't recognize, disputes, or ignores everything you just set forth.

Hussar, I don't mean to give offense, but I'm wrestling with a way to put this diplomatically: when you complain about all those bad game masters in your past, I have to wonder if they were really the problem...?

 

[Numion]

Nah, you answered it in your first sentance. Constant and systematically. Occasionally using the backstory as a hook is dandy - good, even. But when every single loved one you have is only ever used to be thrown to the wolves, it gets rather old quick.

Exactly. But usually it's like if your PC has relatives / loved ones, you only ever hear from them when they've been abducted, blackmailed, sucked into another dimension or worse. Most DMs forget that you should occassionally get invitations to weddings, etc ..

A social event could even be turned into a more light-hearted adventure.

 

[The Shaman]

While I agree that sometimes death does happen, and it is due to bad luck, I think a good DM knows when not to allow death or TPK. Like I said...not in the first encounter, and not right before the big final fight or dramatic moment, unless it is significant.

I couldn't agree less.

I prefer to play with game masters who let the dice fall where they may - if s/he is concerned about not killing a character during a particular encounter, then don't design an encounter where death is on the line should the player come up with a string of natural ones. This "dramatic moment" or "big final fight" stuff leaves me cold - design the encounters and leave the storytelling to the players after the battle is fought, the dragon slain, the princess saved, the treasure vault looted...and if my character falls in a pit and gets impaled on a half-dozen spears just outside the dragon's lair, then that is (1) the luck of the dice and (2) your poor choice to put a lethal trap at that spot.

Remember, this isn't about your story, its the story the players make.

It sounds more like the story that Keifer113 makes, and we're not allowed to mess with it by dying at an "inopportune" moment.

Of course there is no fun without risk, but at the same time, you don't want them to miss out.

Miss out on what exactly? "Oh, I didn't really mean for you to get killed crossing that raging river - that was just to heighten the drama." "Really? It was already plenty dramatic for me when I had to make the Swim checks or die."

As you say, the fun is in facing the challenge - if the challenge isn't real (that is, lacks meaningful consequences), then the fun is significantly lessened.

Oh, and if a player lavishes so much attention on a character that s/he isn't willing to see the character die in the first round of the first encounter, then that character should take up a quiet life behind high town walls, maybe doing needlepoint or haberdashery. Adventuring is dangerous - get rich, or die trying.

 

[Keifer113]

I couldn't agree less.

I prefer to play with game masters who let the dice fall where they may - if s/he is concerned about not killing a character during a particular encounter, then don't design an encounter where death is on the line should the player come up with a string of natural ones. This "dramatic moment" or "big final fight" stuff leaves me cold - design the encounters and leave the storytelling to the players after the battle is fought, the dragon slain, the princess saved, the treasure vault looted...and if my character falls in a pit and gets impaled on a half-dozen spears just outside the dragon's lair, then that is (1) the luck of the dice and (2) your poor choice to put a lethal trap at that spot.It sounds more like the story that Keifer113 makes, and we're not allowed to mess with it by dying at an "inopportune" moment.Miss out on what exactly? "Oh, I didn't really mean for you to get killed crossing that raging river - that was just to heighten the drama." "Really? It was already plenty dramatic for me when I had to make the Swim checks or die."

As you say, the fun is in facing the challenge - if the challenge isn't real (that is, lacks meaningful consequences), then the fun is significantly lessened.

Oh, and if a player lavishes so much attention on a character that s/he isn't willing to see the character die in the first round of the first encounter, then that character should take up a quiet life behind high town walls, maybe doing needlepoint or haberdashery. Adventuring is dangerous - get rich, or die trying.

So let me get this straight....From your post, you don't put any work into character background, or try to make your character have any fluff or extra cool things about it. You also don't mind if, while having a fun or challenging campaign, that your character dies and the DM tells you, sorry bud, don't bother showing up the next three weeks cause the campaign is going to end. You also don't mind if the DM throws traps or challenges that shouldn't be life threatening, but more a challenge, and if things go wrong, like a bunch of 1's rolled by a PC or a bunch of 20's rolled by the DM, then the DM shouldn't fudge things, to ensure that YOU have a fun time.

Like I said....the players make the story. As a DM, its my job to make sure they get to do that. If halfway through they all die, so be it. But I won't screw over a player by letting dice fall where they may. If the player screws up and asks for death, thinking they are invincible, then yeah, they die. Otherwise, I make sure my players have fun. Which is all its about at the end of the day. I guess we must agree to disagree how this is achieved.