DM Schticks That Grind Your Gears

[IcyCool]

I'd would like to point out that the Han Solo and Chewy example is flawed, in that they are 'already PCs'. However, the point the example was trying to make is still valid in my opinion. So you are in the middle of a vast battle, if it really is an issue to introduce a new character, is there a reason the player can't run a monster or NPC?

Except that the players don't make the story. You do, because you are busy fudging the outcomes to get to the "right" one that you scripted in your head before the session started.

Ascribing motives to people is easy, actually debating appears to be difficult. Strange, isn't it?

Fudging the dice makes for a lousy game, no matter how you cut it.

That bit is a matter of opinion, of course.

 

[Elf Witch]

But what kind of battle takes the entire duration of a game night? I mean, typical gamers meet for, what, four hours a week? give or take. I know there are lots out there with more frequent or less frequent games. A normal sized adventuring party can run through even an especially difficult large-setpiece combat in about an hour... what kind of combat takes several sessions to complete?



I believe that the DM owes the players nothing more than his best effort to run the game fairly and make sure everyone has a chance to have fun. Good games make themselves. I've seen players rant and rave about a campaign set in a militaristic totalitarian regime wherein the players started out as fugitives who were running for their lives from the secret police. I've Played in a game where there were two TPK's in the span of three weeks It was just a module run, but i'll be danged if we didn't have fun!



If you were so attached to the defective character (14 hp? seriously, that's a lousy con score), well, that's not a good thing either.

...

?

I have played a lot of game session where combat lasted more than an hour I saw one combat last the entire game session of five hours. Now granted that was a party of 6 against a group of 15 trained soldiers.

And this has been with different groups. Comnat is one of the most time consuming aspects of the game.

I am of the school that I like a DM to sometimes fudge I have never seen a TPK come out okay in all the years I have been playing what I have seen is the game come to a screeching halt.

While I do think death has a part in the game as a DM I do fudge dice if the players have done nothing stupid and they are just have bad luck with the dice. and my players know I will do this and they are glad that I do it. Not one of them would want to play with a DM who rolled out in the open. They don't want the character they have put so much work into to just die because of bad rolling.

As for your comment about his subpar character because he had a lousy con makes no sense to me. Come on do you believe that only characters with + to con should play because anything else say like a 10 makes the character defective?

 

[Agent Oracle]

I'd would like to point out that the Han Solo and Chewy example is flawed, in that they are 'already PCs'. However, the point the example was trying to make is still valid in my opinion. So you are in the middle of a vast battle, if it really is an issue to introduce a new character, is there a reason the player can't run a monster or NPC?

But they were "allready PC's" who voluntarily left before the big final battle began. Remember? they took their reward and were headed out?

INTERIOR: MASSASSI OUTPOST -- MAIN HANGAR DECK.

Luke, Threepio and little Artoo enter the huge spaceship
hangar and hurry along a long line of gleaming spacefighters.
Flight crews rush around loading last-minute armaments and
unlocking power couplings. In an area isolated from this
activity Luke finds Han and Chewbacca loading small boxes onto
an armored speeder.

MAN'S VOICE: (over loudspeaker) All flight trooper, man your stations.
All flight troops, man your stations.

Han is deliberately ignoring the activity of the fighter
pilots' preparation. Luke is quite saddened at the sight of
his friend's departure.

LUKE: So...you got your reward and you're just leaving then?

HAN: That's right, yeah! I got some old debts I've got to pay off with
this stuff. Even if I didn't, you don't think I'd be fool enough to
stick around here, do you? Why don't you come with us? You're pretty
good in a fight. I could use you.

LUKE: (getting angry) Come on! Why don't you take a look around? You
know what's about to happen, what they're up against. They could use a
good pilot like you. You're turning your back on them.

HAN: What good's a reward if you ain't around to use it? Besides,
attacking that battle station ain't my idea of courage. It's more like
suicide.

LUKE: All right. Well, take care of yourself, Han. I guess that's
what you're best at, isn't it?

Luke goes off and Han hesitates, then calls to him.

HAN: Hey, Luke...may the Force be with you!

Luke turns and sees Han wink at him. Luke lifts his hand in
a small wave and then goes off.
Han turns to Chewie who growls at his captain,

HAN: What're you lookin' at? I know what I'm doing.

INTERIOR: MAIN HANGAR DECK -- LUKE'S SHIP.

Luke, Leia, and Dodonna meet under a huge space fighter.

LEIA: What's wrong?

LUKE: Oh, it's Han! I don't know, I really thought he'd change his
mind.

LEIA: He's got to follow his own path. No one can choose it for him.

LUKE: I only wish Ben were here.

Leia gives Luke a little kiss, turns, and goes off. As Luke
heads for his ship, another pilot rushes up to him and grabs
his arm.

 

[Rystil Arden]

As for your comment about his subpar character because he had a lousy con makes no sense to me. Come on do you believe that only characters with + to con should play because anything else say like a 10 makes the character defective?

14 HP at level 10 is abominably and inexcusably low. Especially with AC 12. That character would lose to a CR 1 Orc Barbarian if it lost initiative. Every time. You have to be trying to make a character that will die to have a character which is that weak.

 

[Agent Oracle]

No elf witch, i've seen great characters with negative con modifiers. My longest-running mystic theurge only had a 8 con at chargen, but it was slowly fixed over eight levels. However, when I was running him, I allways, and I mean allways, made sure I put EVERYTHING into keeping my fellow players and I alive. I sucked up the spell failure check and wore some armor. I cast long-duration spells that provided AC boosts and HP boosts. I spent EXP to make myself wonderous items that improved my AC. Many, many things to keep myself alive. I stayed back, but allways contributed to the party, either by spells or by crossbow.

 

[Elf Witch]

No elf witch, i've seen great characters with negative con modifiers. My longest-running mystic theurge only had a 8 con at chargen, but it was slowly fixed over eight levels. However, when I was running him, I allways, and I mean allways, made sure I put EVERYTHING into keeping my fellow players and I alive. I sucked up the spell failure check and wore some armor. I cast long-duration spells that provided AC boosts and HP boosts. I spent EXP to make myself wonderous items that improved my AC. Many, many things to keep myself alive. I stayed back, but allways contributed to the party, either by spells or by crossbow.

Thank for explaining that because thst is not how it sounded.

I have been in Keifer shoes or similar shoes before. I played a fighter and I did not have a magic weapon. We ended up in a battle with a white dragon. The only way I could save against its breath damage was to roll a natural 20 I did not have evasion like the monk and the rogue or a weapon like the paladin who could actually get through the dragon's damage resistance. After two rounds I had lost more than 3/4 of my hit points another round of that kind of damage and my character would have been dead. So I broke off and ran and hide. It kind of pissed off the other players.

Keifer did not go into detail about how his character was bulit or just how the DM built the chain demon he did say he was out of spells and most wizards are of no use once they run out of spells. I am not sure what a spellless wizard could have done other than hide and run and try and help other pCs if they went down. He could have fired a crossbow into melee.

I have played in games as a mage who as run out of spells and it is not fun if the party gets into another combat.

 

[Elf Witch]

14 HP at level 10 is abominably and inexcusably low. Especially with AC 12. That character would lose to a CR 1 Orc Barbarian if it lost initiative. Every time. You have to be trying to make a character that will die to have a character which is that weak.

I did not read it that his 10 level wizard only had a total of 14 HP. The way I read it was that he was only at 14 HP when the encounter happened that and he was out of spells.

If he was out of spells then I would assume that he had been hit and taken damage in another encounter.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I did not read it that his 10 level wizard only had a total of 14 HP. The way I read it was that he was only at 14 HP when the encounter happened that and he was out of spells.

If he was out of spells then I would assume that he had been hit and taken damage in another encounter.

While, it's impossible to tell from what we have, the comment "whose base damage would kill me" was not enough for me to assume that the Wizard was already damaged. Of course, if he was already damaged and nobody healed him, that was the healer's fault (or everyone's fault combined if they had no healer or healing items). If there wasn't enough time for that after the last fight, well, then his buffs from the last fight would still be up, so he shouldn't still have 12 AC (and that is also presuming quite a bit that we weren't told).

 

[Elf Witch]

While, it's impossible to tell from what we have, the comment "whose base damage would kill me" was not enough for me to assume that the Wizard was already damaged. Of course, if he was already damaged and nobody healed him, that was the healer's fault (or everyone's fault combined if they had no healer or healing items). If there wasn't enough time for that after the last fight, well, then his buffs from the last fight would still be up, so he shouldn't still have 12 AC (and that is also presuming quite a bit that we weren't told).

That's true it was kind of hard to know because he did not give enough infomation. I have played a sorcerer in one game where we were in a dungeon and we had no sleep and series of running battles. We were all hurt our healing was gone for the day, the buff spells had run out and I was out of spells. And we were still ending up in combat situations.

Now this situation was of our making. In the end we would have faced a TPK but my character prayed for help from the god she worshiped and the DM rolled 2 on 100 side die and we got divine intervention. In his game any one could call on the gods they worshipped for help but the gods only answered on a 1 or 2 on 100 side. And he rolled this out in the open.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I occassionally run battles that will last 2-3 gaming sessions.

The Siege of Vak Cinter is such an example.

During the game, 2 sessions in, while the PC's side had managed to take the first two hundred meters of beach, one of the PC's was killed. Yes, this was temporary, as the PC's had access to ressurection, but it's not exactly viable on a battlefield where aireal mounts are duking it out, infantry is slugging it out against prepared positions, uphill, and into magical artillery and mundane artillery.

So, the player took control of an equivelant level character. A unit commander leading his fresh troops off of one of the troop transport creatures and onto the beach. She had to not only keep this character alive, but lead the troops to obtaining thier objective, which was climbing the cliff walls to knock out the catapults. While not a PC, this "promoted NPC" was critical to making successful landfall for the ships, which were getting pounded by the artillery.

Not completely unfeasable.

And bad GMing on my part?

Hell no. Bad GMing on my part would be telling her: "Sorry, but you just get to sit this out and watch everyone. You don't get to take part and be a hero."

Even if it's taking over Generic NPC Fighter #352, the player deserves to be in on the action, even if (s)he only gets to play Summoned Cannon Fodder #197, they still deserve to be part of the fight.