DM to do a _subtle_ railroad? Or alter plot entirely?

[fba827]

I'm trying to get a feel as to what I should do as a DM ....

Note I am leaving this a little vague in case my players happen to stumble here.

For this new campaign, I had several points of "the grand plot" that I was trying to unravel over the course of the first ten levels, allowing a few adventures worth as they uncovered layer after layer.

But, after just starting the campaign, the players have basically taken the first layer of the plot and are now making plans to follow that to an extreme. The plans they are making would basically take this first layer as the core focus of the majority of the campaign.

Since it's only been a couple sessions, I know part of the issue is that the players simply haven't had the time to find enough clues to realize something else is going on (and they ignored the clues I did give them). Part of that is my fault for not figuring out a creative way to drop clues (beyond what I already did). Part of the fault is from trying to keep pacing for a full campaign so that they don't get everything all in the first level and be overwhelmed and trying to allow new things to be discovered over time. Also, partly my fault for making the first layer have so much interest that both the players and characters have become fascinated with it.

So I'm left with trying to decide what to do....
1) Do I let them do what they've planned on doing, and drop the other layers I had planned from the campaign, thus refocus everything on the one layer? (this could work because the first layer does have enough character to server as a strong focus on its own, but then lots of my prep-work for the other layers would go down the drain and I would need to prep new stuff)

2) Do I let them do what they've planned on doing, and let them deal with the consequences of not finding the other layers? (oh that will would be evil and fun to deal with in it's own right ! and my prep-work is then easily recycled in to further plot and story with minimal effort)

3) Should I alter one of the other layers of the plot, so that they will stumble on it while doing what they planned on, thus tie them back to everything I already planned out? (this seems like the likeliest of compromises but that's from my view point as a DM, it would let me maintain all my prep work, and it would still let me keep my pacing on stuff I planned on revealing over the course of an entire campaign)

4) Tell them flat out, via in-game methods, how more stuff is connected? (a stranger they already met that has been secretly guiding them to this point gives them a warning, though this would give away about 2 layers at once. But I worry that this method will feel heavy handed and forced and less "about the PCs finding stuff and more about know-it-all-NPCs")

5) Tell them flat out, via out-of-game methods, that they may want to revisit some of the clues that they previously bypassed/ignored? (I shy away from this because I do prefer to find an in-game method)

6) Something else? (there is always some option I don't think of right away)

Keep in mind that neither the characters nor players[/i] have any idea about the other layers going on at this point (they ignored or bypassed all the other clues I tried giving them). So, in truth, I could follow any of these thoughts and they wouldn't be any wiser or claim I was doing trickery behind the scenes.

Any of these options have the potential to make for interesting stories. It's just a matter of how much of the original story and prep-work I should sacrifice? At what point is it railroading? At what point should I just give up what I envisioned and put in hours of planning for the story and just go with what the PCs are doing?

I am leaning towards a certain of the options, but I thought I'd see what other options from non-involved persons might be...

Thoughts?

 

[the Jester]

Give them time to figure it out. Why do they have to have it all worked out in the first few sessions?

 

[fba827]

Give them time to figure it out. Why do they have to have it all worked out in the first few sessions?

The plans they are making as a result of what they found so far will take them to another location completely removed from any of the other layers.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'd go with option 3 as it lets you use your prepared material but doesn't make the players feel they're being railroaded. Arguably it is railroading. But a good kind.

This is how most games work imo. An example: PCs can go east towards the city or west towards the mountains. Either way they'll meet the same group of bandits who have a note linking them to the BBEG necromancer. If the PCs miss the note then later on the sheriff will find it and approach the PCs, asking them to confront this bad dude. Note that it seems like the PCs have choice but the essential structure of the plot is preserved throughout. It's just the 'connecting lines' between the plot nodes that change.

 

[El Mahdi]

It sounds like you've got a good handle on what to do, or what you can do, already. I think you pretty much covered all of the viable options. I would go with a combination of #3 and #2 (primarily #3). Although, using #2, consequences for ignoring the clues could have the side benefit of making the players think they missed something. If they go back over some territory because of it, they may refocus on the missed clues.

If it doesn't work, I think your best plan-B is #4. Use a trusted NPC, like a mentor or patron. Or use news and gossip, a good time to let them flex their Gather Information or Streetwise skills.

I definately would not do #1 unless it becomes absolutley necessary. That's a lot of work and creativity, would be a shame to round-file it.

I would also avoid #5 at all costs. Not only is it stepping outside of the game, but this one more than any of the others, can really make your players feel railroaded. If they are novice players it could even make them feel like they are stupid and the game is too hard (you don't want players with an inferiority complex).

Good Luck and Knock em' Dead.

 

[delericho]

For this new campaign, I had several points of "the grand plot" that I was trying to unravel...

First, let me preface what I'm about to say by saying that I'm not a big fan of the pre-developed 'grand plot'. I'm of the school that says the plot of a campaign is basically "stuff that the PCs do". Where the DM has the notion of a plot for his campaign, he should stand willing to throw it away if the PCs derail it.

Still, I'll try to be helpful.

1) Do I let them do what they've planned on doing, and drop the other layers I had planned from the campaign...

I would do this, or...

2) Do I let them do what they've planned on doing, and let them deal with the consequences...

3) Should I alter one of the other layers of the plot, so that they will stumble on it while doing what they planned on...

4) Tell them flat out, via in-game methods, how more stuff is connected?

A combination of these.

I have a big file of bits of campaigns (both on my PC and in my head), that has resulted from PCs derailing campaigns, TPKs, or other events that have caused a campaign to not go where I thought. I keep this handy for when I need to recycle an idea. It's probably a good idea to have some sort of notion of the same.

Plus, learning to 'wing it' is a very valuable DMing skill.

One question, if I may: when you say the PCs have ignored some of the clues they have been given, do you know if that's because they didn't realise the significance of these clues (which would suggest going with the 2-3-4 solution), or is it more that they're just more interested in following up on the first ideas (in which case, go with 1)?

 

[Agamon]

Plus, learning to 'wing it' is a very valuable DMing skill.

Not only very valuable, but the most fun part of DMing, once you get the hang of it.

 

[fba827]

Yeah, my initial gut reaction was #2 (let them continue what they're doing and then recycle what I had to let them deal with the consequences of not catching the other layers).

But after thinking about it for a day, I started thinking I would do #3 (take one of the things I did expect them to eventually do, and adjust it so that they'll eventually find it on their way and tie them back to the other stuff going on)

If I can find an organic way to do it, then think I will do #3 to tie them back to a few layers but then have #2 for the consequences of a couple other layers.

But, if, on here, there was a strong push for #1, or, if I had reason to believe that the players would not be content from a deeper plot (which I don't believe is the case), then I could be convinced of just refocusing everything on what they are doing and stretch that out for 30 levels...

I don't like #4 when it's done to me as a player and #5 just leaves a bad taste in my mouth... but they are options none the less.

One question, if I may: when you say the PCs have ignored some of the clues they have been given, do you know if that's because they didn't realise the significance of these clues (which would suggest going with the 2-3-4 solution), or is it more that they're just more interested in following up on the first ideas (in which case, go with 1)?

They didn't realize the significance. As an example, in one case, they didn't realize the signifance because I didn't go out of my way to over emphasize it when they stumbled upon it. In another example, one player did say 'something larger must be going on...' but by the next session that single thought was thrown away in favor of one of the other theories they guessed and I didn't want to heavy-hand it by reminding them what one person said as a single sentence among all their other theories. And in the third example, I had an NPC try and give them information in a subtle way (using innuendo since it was a topic no one in public would be saying openly) but the players were still pumped up on paranoia from a previous experience and ended up taking agressive actions to the person that was trying to give them info... so with only half the info they misunderstood his innuendo.


Anyway, thanks for the opinions so far. Other opinions are still welcome (I have a couple weeks before the next session to prep stuff :-D )

 

[Joshua Randall]

I am somewhat schizophrenic on this topic. In theory, I believe that the players/PCs should make the plot (if they want to -- more on that later), and the DM should never thwart them from following whatever path they wish.

In practice, however, I can't seem to resist coming up with grand metaplots, so... take whatever I say here with a dose of "do as I say, not as I do."

An important factor to consider: what is it that the players want out of the game? Some of them may want to pursue their own agendas, while others may be longing for you, the DM, to provide them with a ready-made plot; some players enjoy following the railroad.

Now, if your group is a mix of players with different desires (as most groups are), it may be better to let the players who want to invent their own stories drive most of the gaming -- as long as the other players, and you, are happy with this. (In the case of players who don't care about any plot at all -- the so-called hack'n'slashers or buttkickers -- they're not going to care whether it's the DM or a fellow player doing the plotting; they just want to kill stuff, and that's fine.) By letting the players who want to drive the plot do so, you make them happy; the buttkickers are still happy; and the players who are desperate for a railroad can at least follow the one provided by their fellow players.

That's my opinion, but as with all discussions like this, the best thing you can do is discuss this explicitly with your players. Now, don't expect all of them to be able to articulate what they want; you'll get a lot of responses like, "I don't care, man, whatever you want to do." But at least you will find out who does feel strongly, one way or the other, about plotting.

 

[spiralcat]

This sounds like it's working out nicely. There is something realistic about missing the plot entirely and being confronted by something you didn't expect. Do not railroad them. But feel free to kick them in the rear with what they missed. They'll have just as much fun unravelling what they should have done after the fact.