DM vs. PC's Question

[PwrMnky]

I think if handled well, it could look to be "Darth Vadar" to "Luke Skywalker."

I mean in Star Wars, Vadar was the "Anti-Luke."

If you make it JAWS to James Bond, or Bizarro to Superman, it could be pretty fun ...

 

[was]

I wouldn't recommend running out a monster version of the pc to challenge him. Your players will see right through that. Exploit their weaknesses in less overt ways. Underwater adventures, accompanied with the subsequent penalties in combat are always humbling. Or perhaps the goblin horde the pc is mowing through has a contingent of archers or a shaman with charm person memorized. Nothing like a massive tank becoming the personal toy of a filthy goblin spellcaster.

 

[shilsen]

Did you ever bash your groups "Me kill all" barbarian level 5 with a human warrior NPC level 6 without magic equipment ?

No, because that's way too easy

But I did take three members of a five member 9th lvl party (with very high wealth and stats, and an 11th lvl druid NPC ally) below -10 with two 8th lvl NPCs and eight 4th lvl NPCs, the latter eight with no magical equipment.

And bashed the 10th lvl paladin down with three Bbn4s, who were equipped with (I kid you not) hide armor and sticks with rocks attached to them. One of the PCs actually collected one of those and carried it around, claiming that they were so good with it that it must be a masterwork stick with a rock

 

[der_kluge]

I got into this a couple of campaigns ago. I realized that every game was basically me just trying to beat my PCs into submission, and I couldn't scratch them. I kept coming up with more and more villains to try to destroy them.

Once I realized that my games had taken on a "me vs. them" mentality, I stopped GM'ing. It hadn't become fun for me.

 

[Gort]

I got into this a couple of campaigns ago. I realized that every game was basically me just trying to beat my PCs into submission, and I couldn't scratch them. I kept coming up with more and more villains to try to destroy them.

I don't understand how a DM who wants to kill his players can possibly fail. You want them dead, you just hit them with a party identical to them, but ten levels higher. Or a party level + 10 CR monster. It's not difficult.

The point is that it's not fun to do that, not that it's difficult. Were you artificially limiting yourself somehow? (only using equal-CR monsters, for instance?) Generally speaking my PCs are good enough to get through equal-CR challenges with little to no expenditure of resources.

 

[Celebrim]

I got into this a couple of campaigns ago. I realized that every game was basically me just trying to beat my PCs into submission, and I couldn't scratch them. I kept coming up with more and more villains to try to destroy them.

Once I realized that my games had taken on a "me vs. them" mentality, I stopped GM'ing. It hadn't become fun for me.

Yuck.

I've never had any problem beating my PC's into submission. In fact, I usually have the opposite problem. I don't really want to kill of PC's (although I'd never say that to my players, as it would harm my rep as a rat err... 'fink' DM), but players always seem to find ways to die and die horribly.

I've heard of games that were "me vs. them", and I've seen one player get into this sort of antagonistic relationship with the DM, but I've never actually been in a game where the PC's considered the DM the enemy and had to 'beat' him.

I mean seriously. The DM can't be beaten.

Whenever I here about situations in which the PC's 'can't be touched' my immediate suspicion is that there is cheating of some sort going on, or that the DM has lost control of the game and has one or more PC's dictating to him the outcome of actions.

And that I have seen. I've seen players that 'roll' 20 15+'s in a row, or say that they do. I've seen players that never manage to 'roll' less than an 18 for thier initiative except when I make them roll in front of me. I've seen DM's bullied by a player into letting the player essentially decide what the outcome of his character's every action was, with the player saying what the character does and then wheedling, threatening, coersing, rules lawyering, complaining, and throwing tantrums until the DM agree to the outcome that the player wanted to see.

But, beside that, the DM can't can't can't be beaten.

Anyway, as for the original question, no, I would never introduce a NPC troll with the monkey grip feat as a foil - or at least - not early in the players career. The big drawback of the monkey grip feat as far as I can see, is that you are almost certainly not going to get as cool of toys as someone who uses a more normal sized weapon. Large sized creatures and medium sized creatures with the monkey grip feat therefore to me make better foils for your player, as not only do they make great rivals but when the PC does triumph he gets to take thier toys (and this lets you control the power level of the character indirectly, by providing the sort of toys you can live with while still giving a 'Coooool' factor to boosts the players self-esteem).

 

[Nightfall]

Troll with Monkey grip great sword...eh.

Troll with TWO great swords using Monkey grip! Then you got em!

 

[ivocaliban]

The trick is to let the player get comfortable with new feats and special abilities. Regardless of your intent (and hopefully it's for everyone's fun and enjoyment), you don't want to beat up on a player who just got a new toy. Let them have some fun with it, get comfortable with it, learn to rely on it...then you pull the rug out from under them.

 

[Nightfall]

*still likes the idea of duel wielding great sword trolls...*

 

[MongooseFamiliar]

Contrariness.

Where is the line drawn between challenging your players and engaging in a pissing contest with them?

I have a PC who is making a fighter with the Monkey Grip feat wielding a Large Greatsword. If I send a, for example, troll with the Monkey Grip feat wielding some massive weapon, am i challenging him or am I just saying "Neener neener, look what I can do!"?

The first thing I thought of when I saw this was pixies. Evil little pixies poking at the great big nasty sword-man with their swords and spears as long as his hand. Would he even be able to hit the little things?

Maybe I'm just contrary. I see something big and strong and think, "Hmm, how do I outsmart the big stupid...."

As for challenging him with a troll or something, how about, say, an orc or hobgoblin leader? Figure that there is one who is a bit bigger and smarter than the others and bullied them into whatever fits your adventure. You'd have the potential for some nice mano e mano battling there, or a rampaging big sword guy similiar (but not identical) to your player, but with back-up mooks.

As has been mentioned, and a former DM of mine used to say, "Sure, you can do that. Just be aware that if you can do it, so can your enemies."