DMG to include a "starter town".

[MerricB]

...And I want to revisit Remathilis' question: Can someone tell me where this "Threshold" town came from, what product it originally appeared in? I'm seriously blanking, because I don't remember an Iconic town named "Threshold."

Threshold made its first appearance in the D&D Expert set (blue box) edited by Frank Mentzer, although it might have first appeared in the Moldvay edition. I'll have to check. It was the example town there, with a bunch of adventure hooks that you could use.

I don't know how iconic it was, though. The "Keep" on the Borderlands is far more well known, as is Hommlet (and Saltmarsh), as they were the site of actual adventures.

Cheers!

 

[Reaper Steve]

Disregard...question answered before I typed it!

OK, regard:
I don't know if it would be Hommlet, as that ties back to Greyhawk, which is something I think 4E is avoiding.

 

[Monkey Boy]

But you do realize that Eric Mona then goes on to say, that they decided attempting to "fire their fanbase" was a bad idea?

So something they discussed between 2e and 3e but never actually have tried lends credence to the idea?

Is that seriously what you're saying? Because I draw the opposite conclusion from it.

All I am saying is that someone in a position to guide the evolution of DnD thought firing the fanbase was an option. It was on the table and discussed. The consesus seems that it was a bad idea. The fact that it was even an option at the time surprises me and leads me to think that it is not entirely unlikely someone has considered something similar in the evolution of 4E.

What did you think I was saying?

I doubt that person is still in a role where they can shape DnD but you never know. My own fear surrounding firing the fanbase is DnD moving to a GW model. While GW is successful I hate their way of doing things.

From what I've read I do not think WOTC are firing their fanbase.

 

[Vigilance]

Disregard...question answered before I typed it!

OK, regard:
I don't know if it would be Hommlet, as that ties back to Greyhawk, which is something I think 4E is avoiding.

But Wizards has said some iconic parts of Greyhawk are being broken away from the setting.

Also, Hommlett in the DMG would mean 100% that we will get a 4e version of the ToEE, which is obviously the best idea ever.

 

[BryonD]

...



If you can really convince me that I'm "putting words in your mouth"--without insulting us both by trying to claim that saying I have "biased eyes" is anything other than saying I'm biased--I'll be happy to apologize and continue.

You said that I called you biased "because happen to not see the issue from your point of view"
That is completely false.

You made a very strong statement when you said you saw "nothing" to suggest less complexity. The designers have openly made comments about streamlining and simplification. When you consider what pieces we have heard about changes to skills, changes to monsters, the workings of per-encounter design. And all of these things, among others I've probably forgotten at the moment, being lauded as less complex. And yet you say you've seen "nothing". That boggles me.

That you disagreed with me had nothing to do with it. You should know me well enough to know that I love to engage in debate. I don't care if you disagree. But I'm going to focus on the merits, or lack thereof as I see it, in point that are made. And that is a long way different than just getting pissy because you disagree.

And there was no hypocrisy.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Also, Hommlett in the DMG would mean 100% that we will get a 4e version of the ToEE, which is obviously the best idea ever.

Now that would be cool. Not a 4E version Return to ToEE (Expedition to the ToEE? no thanks), but a updated version of the original! 'Elemental Evil' has huge potential with the new cosmology!

 

[Mouseferatu]

You made a very strong statement when you said you saw "nothing" to suggest less complexity.

And that, in turn, is not at all what I said. I said this:

Seriously, as long as the game still allows for growing complexity as people master it--and I've seen nothing to suggest to me that 4E won't

I stand by that. I believe that 4E will allow for growing complexity, as people make use of more options and grow comfortable with the starting options.

I never said there wouldn't be less complexity. I said there would still be complexity. The two are not mutually exclusive, any more than the statements "I have less water than I used to" and "I have water" are mutually exclusive.

 

[BryonD]

Disregard...question answered before I typed it!

OK, regard:
I don't know if it would be Hommlet, as that ties back to Greyhawk, which is something I think 4E is avoiding.

I think it will be Hommlet. They can do Hommlet as a point of light without getting overly tied to GH. They could just talk about the "major city", whcih may or may not be GH. The religion parts would be the trickiest.

 

[MerricB]

For the life of me, I can't recall where Threshold first appeared.
Help?

Look up.

I'll try to compile the choices we've had so far...

The Village of Hommlet
The iconic town of AD&D, designed by Gary Gygax and shown in the adventure module of the same name. Hommlet is a sleepy hamlet that just happens to be near to the Temple of Elemental Evil. It saw a lot of action during the first rising of the Temple, then reverted to its sleepy state.

The second rising of the Temple is where it first was published: the nearby Moathouse is inhabited by agents of Chaos and Evil, and cultists infiltrate the village. Local retired heroes provide training for the members of the party, and there is tension between the Old (Druidical) Faith and the new faith of St Cuthbert.

The third rising of the Temple (as published in Monte Cook's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil) sees Hommlet no longer quite so sleepy.

Threshold
The example town in the D&D Expert Set edited by Mentzer (possibly also Moldvay; I'll check). It has a few inhabitants detailed and some adventure hooks. It is set in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. Monkey Boy notes that it sees extra detailing in B10 Nights Dark Terror, but I never saw much of late-Basic D&D material.

Restenford
Less well known than Hommlet, Restenford is the town featured in the AD&D adventure "L1: The Secret of Bone Hill" by Len Lakofka. It's set on Greyhawk in the Lendore Isles.

Keep on the Borderlands
If you don't know this place - probably the most well-known of any D&D adventure, due to its including in many, many sets of Basic D&D - you should hunt down a copy. The dungeon may not always make sense, but it's designed to be fun for beginning players & DMs. In that it succeeds.

The Keep itself is unusual in that none of the NPCs are named. Another Gygax design, it has infiltrators, tavern-keepers, a head priest, and interesting places to visit.

Cheers!

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Hommlet?

Man, there are, every now and again, days that I wish I was more in tune with the older editions of D&D. Then there are days like today, when I find out that they apparently consisted of boundless creativity on the order of magnitude of wandering around the planet Oerth and visiting the small peasant village of Hommlet, where one might celebrate his mirthday by throwing a party with dizza and bandwiches. Sheesh. And people complain about WotC's names. A lot of this stuff sounds like the "DM frantically looks around the room to figure out what to name this new place" method of world building.

"You walk in to the local mercenary's guild. 'Welcome to the Order of the... uh... Kettle,' the black guy at the entrance says. 'My name is... Pot?' <Shrug>"

I wish there were a better way of that sounding more playful and less whippersnapperly, but eh, smileys aren't my thing. Just imagine that was all accompanied by enthusiastic use of jazz hands.

In terms of the actual topic at hand though, this could be very helpful. And if Necromancer Games can publish a supplement consisting entirely of taverns and garnish praise for it, I figure that WotC can probably manage a few pages about a town without killing the game.