DMG2 blurb on Amazon. Attention Planescape fans!

[Shemeska]

I <3 A'kin

I'll say one thing: If A'kin makes an appearance I'll be much more favorable towards the book, double that if the Friendly Fiend himself gets illustrated.

This whole thing probably depends on who is actually writing the section on Sigil. Some will do better than others on the WotC design team, given past planar material by some folks, and the 4e design team's focus with the 4e cosmology. But again, I'll hold my opinion till I see something. Given the 4e MotP material, I have less worry about Sigil getting mangled like 4e FR did, or it getting as much of a whitewash as Eberron's cosmology appears to be getting in 4e. We shall see.

 

[FourthBear]

I would love to see more planar cities, such as Grenpoli and Dis, get some official love.

I would bet that all the planar cities from Manual of the Planes get a write-up in Dragon at least. Grenpoli and Dis do have the disadvantage of being so clearly evil that any kind of betrayal or deception plots would become rather ho-hum, I would think. Nice places to visit, but I wouldn't want to live in either. I have a soft spot for Dispater among all the archdevils.

I am particular interested in Hestavar, as Shroomy is. The write-up is intriguing, with it an incredibly wealthy and seemingly utopian city. It's a tricky balance to prevent a celestial city from being either uninteresting to adventure in or simply making it into a hidden dystopia.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I'll say one thing: If A'kin makes an appearance I'll be much more favorable towards the book, double that if the Friendly Fiend himself gets illustrated.

That is what I am hoping with the help of exception based design and all could lead too. All the quirky and interesting characters from Sigil could be done without have to worry about basing it off some specific mechanic source.

Prion, while we can't say now whether or not it will take that approach. I don't think it will, since we have elements like Lady of Pain and other NPCs of higher level. As well as Clueless who are lower level and likely from the World. I suspect the Paragon level will be more, "okay since your this level you have a semi-secure footing in Sigil and some knowledge of Sigil."

 

[Psion]

This whole thing probably depends on who is actually writing the section on Sigil.

Absolutely. One of the chief complaints I am hearing about the 4e MotP*is that the writing goes from very good in one section to very poor in the next.


* - other than it feels awful thin... not that its any different than any other recent book, but contrasting it with the 3e MotP probably drives it home.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I suspect the Paragon level will be more, "okay since your this level you have a semi-secure footing in Sigil and some knowledge of Sigil."

That may be so. My belief right now is thinking WotC my be doing a tiered theme in the manner that the old BECMI managed.

In BECMI, a character's career went something like this.

Phase 1 (Basic/Expert)- Going out to adventure, clear out some nearby dungeons and cave networks, making the home-base area safe for others.
Phase 2 (Companion)- Founding a domain, ruling it, building armies, and keeping one's own kingdom safe from neighbor threats as a ruler would.
Phase 3 (Master)- Traveling to, and exploring, other dimensions and planes and battling the threats from those worlds in a quest for immortality.
Phase 4 (Immortals)- Immortality.​

Four clear phases to a character's career. The problem always seemed to be that players often didn't care to actually run their domain and would rather have just gone out and killed monsters and take their stuff during the Phase 2 levels. Plus, it felt a little clumsy to uproot those players who DID settle down to rule and tell them that now they had moved up to the Phase three levels they were obligated to now leave home and travel to other dimensions. I suppose a good DM could have given some foreshadowing that these changes to the careers were coming to make them easier to swallow.

In 4e I wonder if WotC is going to keep rulership out of the character career progression or save it for the Epic levels.

So 4e path themes might be:

Phase 1- heroic: dungeon and cave clearing, wilderness exploring (DMG 1 focuses here)
Phase 2- paragon: planes exploring (DMG 2 focuses on this)
Phase 3- epic: founding a realm, leading armies (DMG 3 might focus on this?)
Phase 4: ?​

or,

Phase 1- heroic: dungeon and cave clearing, wilderness exploring
Phase 2- paragon (and epic?): planes exploring
Phase 3: ?​

Hmm . . .

 

[Shroomy]

In 4e I wonder if WotC is going to keep rulership out of the character career progression or save it for the Epic levels.

If WoTC is going to present the option (and I'm not sure that they will in an in-depth fashion), my guess it would be pitched towards high paragon and epic tiers. We already have one example in the epic tier, the Mythic Sovereign epic destiny from Dragon.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I'm certainly interested in how they'll detail Sigil more, it could be at least as long as the chapter from Faction War on Sigil. It probably won't be as long as In the Cage: a Guide to Sigil, or have reproductions of fliers and ads from around Sigil as the art.

But just because Sigil is depicted as a Paragon level home base, doesn't mean it has to be just that. Most trying to run Planescape use it for a home-base for Heroic, Paragon and Epic Levels. And I generally disagree with the population numbers, as I've always seen it as having more residents. The point is it can be even as open as you want, and adjustable depending on it's use.

I even had ideas for having reflections of Sigil in other realities such as Feywild and Shadowfell, that exist along side the material one.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Suffice to say, Union needed a revamp if it wanted to shed the disdain it generally received when it came out.

what if it was inbetween worlds...so far out in the astral sea that is is a hub for world jumpers...

 

[Dire Bare]

That may be so. My belief right now is thinking WotC my be doing a tiered theme in the manner that the old BECMI managed.

In BECMI, a character's career went something like this.

Phase 1 (Basic/Expert)- Going out to adventure, clear out some nearby dungeons and cave networks, making the home-base area safe for others.
Phase 2 (Companion)- Founding a domain, ruling it, building armies, and keeping one's own kingdom safe from neighbor threats as a ruler would.
Phase 3 (Master)- Traveling to, and exploring, other dimensions and planes and battling the threats from those worlds in a quest for immortality.
Phase 4 (Immortals)- Immortality.​

I'd love a D&D 4e product that presented the "Immortal Tier" of levels 31 - 40!!!

 

[Dire Bare]

I'll reserve judgement till the book is out. They didn't mess anything up in the MotP w/ respect to Sigil (thank you Michelle Carter for having a hand in its content). Admittedly, it's subtlely warped in some ways by being part of the 4e cosmology that changes many things, changes the atmosphere of the planes, and eliminates a few bedrock concepts and tropes. It isn't the same City of Doors - more like a "what if alternate thingy" comic book version of Sigil that isn't part of the mainline coverage of the setting.

The only difference between 2e Sigil and 4e Sigil that I really notice is the lack of a connection to the Outlands (Concordant Opposition) and the gate-towns. I've always seen Sigil as a hub of planar "culture" that is shared with the gate-towns and other planar crossroads.