DMing starting equipment

[LazerPointer]

First time DMing, game starts Wed. We got:

Halfling Rogue, Druid
Gnome Ranger, Sorceror
Human Chaotic Paladin
Dwarf Fighter

So, as we're creating characters, the Dwarf ends up with chainmail on his sheet. And the Paladin with a greatsword?!? How much munchkining will the tiny peoples have to do to become factors in a battle?

1st question: Will this present balance issues, i.e. will they mop up all foes with all other characters as support cast?

I think it might be hard to design encounters that work for everyone.

I really want to go a bit easy giving out magic weapons and the like, but how long will it be until they get a better suit of armor/ weapon? I was hoping they'd start a little humbler, so they'd be excited about getting that new chain shirt.

2nd question: If you agree that this is a problem, how do I go about talking them down from the items they've chosen? I don't want to tell them what all their starting gear is.

I tried pussyfooting around the issue w/ the dwarf by saying that he may have chosen leather armor because the game starts midwinter, and he's been travelling. No dice. Advice?

 

[Agback]

G'day

I really don't think you can afford to meddle in this decision. The whole gamer aesthetic in RPGs depends on the players' making consequential decisions. They won't just resent your interference, they'll feel less engaged with the game. In a lot of ways the 'master' bit in the terms 'gamemaster' and 'dungeonmaster' is unfortunate. D&D is something that you and your friends do together: you are not the boss, and you have to let them provide their share of the input.

What I would do is design encounters without reference to their uber-equipment in any way. Let them enjoy the power and extra success that their sword and mailshirt bring in the expected environment. Let them suffer the normal consequences of lacking what they gave up for that equipment. Let them feel the disappointmment of winning only the sort of loot they ought to expect from first-level encounters.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Piratecat]

I think you're making much ado about nothing. Assuming that they have the cash, there's really no reason to micromanage their equipment purchases. And if it turns out to be a problem? The paladin's greatsword won't help much against an archer in a tree.

Remember, they're there to have fun. Part of having fun is kicking your monsters' butts and surviving the battle - and as a DM, that's fun for you, too.

 

[LazerPointer]

Point taken. Now back to inventing a chaotic paladin....

 

[Piratecat]

You may not want to reinvent the wheel; there's one in Unearthed Arcana. It's very cool.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

First time DMing, game starts Wed. We got:

Halfling Rogue, Druid
Gnome Ranger, Sorceror
Human Chaotic Paladin
Dwarf Fighter

There seems to be a lot of multiclassing going on. Especially the spellcasters. This will mean that you probably won't have a real good arcane artillery. They might want to stick to magic that improves the abilities of their nonspellcaster classes: The druid will want to cast stealthy spells, the sorcerer those that make you better in combat.

So, as we're creating characters, the Dwarf ends up with chainmail on his sheet.

So the tank has a good armor? No problem with me. He probably has a bad dex, and without that one the rogue might have more ac then him

And the Paladin with a greatsword?!?

Good for him! So he will do about as much damage as the rogue (the greatswords 2d6 + high str *1.5 against the small shortsword's 1d4 + 1x a little strength + a lot of nice d6 of SA)

How much munchkining will the tiny peoples have to do to become factors in a battle?

Not too much. And they have made these characters to be useful in more areas than the battlefield, so they will be of less use on the battlefield as they could have been. But it will pay when the dwarf needs the halfling to get anything done in the city

1st question: Will this present balance issues, i.e. will they mop up all foes with all other characters as support cast?

I think not.

I really want to go a bit easy giving out magic weapons and the like, but how long will it be until they get a better suit of armor/ weapon?

Assuming you give them about as much treasure as the rules suggest, the armor will probably be exchanged in the next couple of levels - on level 3 or 4, the dwarf will want a full plate (masterwork of course - if you spend 1500 on a full plate, the 150 extra for masterwork aren't an issue), and magic weapons will show up around level 4 or 5 (masterwork weapon for the paladin on level 2, I think)

2nd question: If you agree that this is a problem, how do I go about talking them down from the items they've chosen? I don't want to tell them what all their starting gear is.

I tried pussyfooting around the issue w/ the dwarf by saying that he may have chosen leather armor because the game starts midwinter, and he's been travelling. No dice. Advice?

It's not really a problem. They're characters with the focus on battle (the paladin has few abilities outside of combat, the fighter almost none), so they should shine in them.
And you can't expect from a dwarven warrior to wear anything but metal. Nothing better than chainmail unmentionables to keep you warm

 

[Saeviomagy]

So, as we're creating characters, the Dwarf ends up with chainmail on his sheet. And the Paladin with a greatsword?!? How much munchkining will the tiny peoples have to do to become factors in a battle?

I tried pussyfooting around the issue w/ the dwarf by saying that he may have chosen leather armor because the game starts midwinter, and he's been travelling. No dice. Advice?

So what you're trying to say is
"I didn't read the rulebook, and I want to run a game that's considerably different to the default one presented there, BUT I didn't tell my players this up front", along with "It's my first time GMing, so I really don't have any idea of what makes for a fun game".

Fact: If the fighter starts out wearing leather armour, he'll be a significantly less effective combatant than the rogue/druid, who has (no doubt) high dex, leather armour or even studded leather armour, along with buffing spells.

If the paladin can't even have a greatsword...

What IS the point of playing a fighter in a game like that? Having 1 point of to-hit over everyone else?

 

[LazerPointer]

So what you're trying to say is
"I didn't read the rulebook, and I want to run a game that's considerably different to the default one presented there, BUT I didn't tell my players this up front", along with "It's my first time GMing, so I really don't have any idea of what makes for a fun game".

Fact: If the fighter starts out wearing leather armour, he'll be a significantly less effective combatant than the rogue/druid, who has (no doubt) high dex, leather armour or even studded leather armour, along with buffing spells.

If the paladin can't even have a greatsword...

What IS the point of playing a fighter in a game like that? Having 1 point of to-hit over everyone else?

No, I'm not really saying that at all. I wasn't very clear in my first post.

Nobody's multiclassing, I just wrote it wrong trying to save space. There's a halfling druid and a halfling rogue, etc, all starting 1st level.

I have been reading the rulebooks, a lot, over the last few weeks. I have a pretty good idea of what would be a fun game, IMHO, but it is my fist time dming. I stated to my players that I wanted to run a slightly lower magic/wealth game.

I didn't think that starting weaker and getting stronger was different from the default. I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a bore for the characters who roll their 1d4 every attack.

If the paladin can't even start the game with a greatsword? It is the most powerful weapon on the PH list....

Anyway, thanks y'all for the replies.

 

[Hammerhead]

So what should the Paladin start with? A big stick? Can he sharpen it?

Furthermore, a Greatsword isn't the most powerful weapon in the PHB; it does the most damage (actually, I think it's tied with the Greataxe). The Greatsword isn't even that good of a choice for 1st level characters, since the array of goblins and rats fought at that level possess so few hit points that the damage is ultimately wasted; a warhammer or long sword, combined with a nice shield, is generally a better choice.

So the Paladin gets to do a ton a damage with a Greatsword, whereas the Halfling Rogue gets Sneak Attacks, a higher starting AC, and four or five times the Paladin's skills? Why is this a problem?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Nobody's multiclassing, I just wrote it wrong trying to save space. There's a halfling druid and a halfling rogue, etc, all starting 1st level.

Ah. Then it's going to be OK: spells always do the same damage, whether the caster is a pixie or a titan. So the spellcasters won't have much problems (in fact, small spellcasters do have some advantages, especially the size bonus on AC and attack).

Same with the rogue: He has his sneak attack, and this enables him to deal out decently.

The ranger will deal less damage then the others, but it's not that bad (and rangers have other advantages, too).

I have been reading the rulebooks, a lot, over the last few weeks. I have a pretty good idea of what would be a fun game, IMHO, but it is my fist time dming. I stated to my players that I wanted to run a slightly lower magic/wealth game.

Well, then there's something wrong, as they probably don't have the money to buy a 50gp weapon or a 150gp armor (especially the armor, since fighters start with 150 gp on average and need other stuff, too. The sword would still be a third of the paladin's starting money), unless you use starting equipment like in the FR or in Rokugan. If you give starting money by the books (or even only a fraction of that), they probably have to settle for less expensive stuff at first and get their greatsword and chainmail later (which would probably still be before they leveled up for the first time)

If the paladin can't even start the game with a greatsword? It is the most powerful weapon on the PH list....

Still, we talk about the normal, non-magical, non-masterwork version.