DM's are Producers, Players are Consumers

[Calico_Jack73]

It depends on the game and the group. I've had some games where I've had to force feed the players the whole story. The players only came alive during combat. The plot of the adventure was only filler between combat encounters. I've had other games "sandbox style" games where I could sit back and had to do very little. In those games I'd say that everyone was an equal contributor. However, the force-feed groups/games have far exceeded the sandbox group/games in my experience.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I am sure it happens, but it isn't true for my group. The players add tons of content to the game, I as a DM sure fleshes out some stuff and builds the backbone to a campaign.

But it is the players, their interaction with the world and I as a DM the truly fleshes out the world, the NPCs and the campaign in general. It simply feels as less work since it is done during the enjoyment of playing the game.

 

[Shemeska]

I can be true yes, but not always, and not in my current or previous campaign. It's not so much a case of me preparing a meal for them, them eating and enjoying, and me cleaning up afterwards as it is a case of me providing a kitchen fully stocked with what I think are yummy ingredients, and then them cooking something out of whatever portions of that they feel like, and possibly having a foodfight with me and each other in the process.

My favorite campaign moments are invariably PC to PC interaction and in-character PC banter amongst themselves.

If you have awesome players, you don't have anything approaching a producer DM / consumer Player situation at all. If you have awesome players it's much more balanced.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, let's hear it for awsome players. :thumbup:

OTOH, isn't this just the opposite side of the Oberoni fallacy? That a good DM can make any game good; good players can do the same?

Is there anything the system itself (and I don't just mean any particular edition or even game really) that can help engage players in the game? What can the game designers do to try to spread things about a little more evenly?

 

[Nifft]

IMHO: DMs are directors, and players are actors.

DMs do a lot of intellectually exhausting planning; players do a lot of emotionally exhausting characterization.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Barastrondo]

IMHO: DMs are directors, and players are actors.

DMs do a lot of intellectually exhausting planning; players do a lot of emotionally exhausting characterization.

They also write huge portions of the script. All their dialogue, for instance, and in a decent game they have a notable amount of plot input. If you want to continue the metaphor, I'd say you have to look not at a summer blockbuster where the writing team and the actors are two different groups, but more like a Christopher Guest mockumentary where the actors tend to ad-lib a lot of their dialogue and try different scenes that's then edited into a cohesive whole.

I certainly don't agree that players are "consumers" — they're there to partake of stuff you provide, yes, but the term is loaded with connotations of passivity. So, true for passive players, pretty misleading for the rest of them.

 

[pemerton]

Is there anything the system itself (and I don't just mean any particular edition or even game really) that can help engage players in the game?

I think that the answer to this is Yes. It's currently being discussed in the "Saying Yes" thread.

 

[Nifft]

They also write huge portions of the script. All their dialogue, for instance, and in a decent game they have a notable amount of plot input. If you want to continue the metaphor, I'd say you have to look not at a summer blockbuster where the writing team and the actors are two different groups, but more like a Christopher Guest mockumentary where the actors tend to ad-lib a lot of their dialogue and try different scenes that's then edited into a cohesive whole.

True. Both "sides" do a lot of the writing.

IMHO the best DMs actually write a bit less of the plot, and instead leave roughly half the plot in the players' hands.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Barastrondo]

IMHO the best DMs actually write a bit less of the plot, and instead leave roughly half the plot in the players' hands.

I agree, with one caveat: it's possible to have good players who are more interested in a "sightseeing" sort of game, generally preferring to have a more reactive style of play. In such a case, running the game may entail writing more of the plot, given that the players feel more comfortable leaving more of it in your hands.

I think it's hard to write advice on how to run a game well that applies in 100% of situations, though. All my favorite advice doesn't apply to, say, con games played with strangers, for instance. It's just such a dang variable social activity.

 

[Arnwyn]

The GM cooks the meal and sets the table, but the players provide scintillating dinner-party conversation.

I love this particular description.

How it applies to the OP or the podcast... I don't know.