DMs are too easy on their players

[Doug McCrae]

Red dragon approaching party.
Party opts for Operation 21.

...

The fight is on.

Edena_of_Neith is too easy on his players.

 

[Quasqueton]

So, to summarize the OP:

"I'm big, bad, and mean. Respect me. I say my penis is bigger than yours."

Quasqueton

 

[ShinHakkaider]

While I disagree with the way the point was made I DO agree with one thing especially in regards to some posts that I read on this board. When I read things along the line of "well, I try not to have character deaths in my game because that's no fun for the players" it makes me wonder if, well I'm just old. Because I just always assumed that death was part of the risk of adventuring and playing the game. TO ME it's like people griping about being sent back a few paces while playing TROUBLE, or losing your Knights or Queen while playing chess or landing on Park Place or Boardwalk when there are hotels on them. It's part of the risk when you play the game. Of course as a player you try to minimize that risk and it's up to the DM to set the tone of the game at the beginning (if your playing a political game then death has a higher crimp factor than a default adventure game).

Also I find (and this is just my experience, mind you) that when you challenge your players they tend to rise to the occasion. Even if they fail and escape with their lives the challenge is usually enough to motivate them to return or is impressive enough to make them stay away for a while at least. Some of my older players have wandered into situations after flat out ignoring hints that the threat might be too much for them and through planning and resourcefulness did better than I would have expected.

To me D&D is a GAME first and not an exercise in storytelling. That being said some of the best games that I've been part of as a player and as a DM is where things developed on their own and there was a very real element of danger. When you mollycoddle your players it pretty much neuters that danger and for me, the fun.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Edena_of_Neith is too easy on his players.

Who knew! This confuses me, since I thought Edena was compaining about going easy on PCs and is now advocating house ruling and fudging in their favor when they attack a great wyrm dragon at level 5??? Who's too easy on their players now?

 

[Hussar]

I like being DM'ed "toughly". I don't blame the CR system much, however. An "equal CR" encounter is a pushover, but some DMs think most encounters should be pushovers. (Yawn.) I'd rather face fewer, tougher encounters.

I've seen DMs go easy in lots of campaign. Exalted was one of the worst offenders (in campaigns that I've been in), and Exalted doesn't have a CR system.

See, I don't get this. An equal CR encounter most certainly is not a pushover. Most equal CR encounters can kill a PC in a single round through straight up damage. Never mind crits or special abilities and save or die effects. The only reason I see that equal CR encounters are pushovers is because the PC's are actually overpowered - usually through point value of the PC's.

If your players are walking over encounters, calculate what their point buy value is, even if you use die rolled PC's. I'll bet dollars to donuts, the PC's are well over 34 point buys. That's worth at least a level right there.

 

[Coplen]

*yawn*

Ditto.

 

[JoeGKushner]

That's an interesting interpetation. So the stonskin makes the character imobile, even though they're using a fly spell in the air? Was that how stoneskin used to work? Been a while. Could be useful for several things.

Red dragon approaching party.
Party opts for Operation 21.

The elven wizard throws Fly, ascends up to meet oncoming dragon.
The dragon thinks: 'My, tempting target. I'll knock her right out of the air.'
The dragon flies right at the elven wizard. The dragon has decided to ram her (and bite her, which it succeeds in doing, amplifying the results below.)

However, the elven wizard bought a Stonestone scroll (old version of Stoneskin, allowed in my game), cast it earlier, and is Stoneskinned.

The dragon meant the impact as an attack. So the mage takes no damage from it, because of the Stoneskin.
The mage was not attacking the dragon by flying into it's path. So the dragon does take damage from the impact.

The dragon, thanks to it's heavy plate, does not pass onward ... the mage does not pass right through the dragon because the dragon's momentum is carrying it onward.
Instead, the dragon is simply stopped, dead, it's armor crushing under the impact with the mage. It accrues considerable damage as it goes from full speed to 0 speed instantaneously.

Then, the dragon falls to the ground with a wham. And it takes one heck of a lot more damage as it hits that solid ground far below.

The fight is on.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Thanks for the offer, Edena, but I generally don't find the hypothetical scenarios in your threads to be very accurate to the topic at hand, so arguing them with one of my own isn't really conductive to discussion. I just thought some of the other posters might appreciate some context.

I'll head off now.

Kinda on the same spot. I mean, why wouldn't the dragon just breath on 'em all in the first place?

 

[Jim Hague]

Or, for laughs and giggles, let's assume the mage succumbed to the Fear Aura of the dragon, and flew directly away from it.
It still caught her, being faster, and rammed ... with the result above.

But let's say the dragon succeeded with it's bite attack, and snatched the mage into it's mouth.
The bite has no effect, due to the Stoneskin.
Now, instead of the armor plated sides of the dragon impacting the mage, the soft inner part of it's mouth impacts her. There is still no damage to the mage - no effect on her at all, since it was an attack and Stoneskin stops all effects of an attack of this sort.
But the soft flesh of the dragon is no match for the inertia of it's movement and incredible mass, and it passes right through the mage ... she passes right through the dragon, ripping a hole her size clear through it, blasting out the tail section in a spray of dragonblood.

This causes a LOT of damage to the dragon. And now the dragon is bleeding to death.

Sorry, missed this earlier...so now, we're not only dealing with GM ego, but we've degenerated into bad Warner Brothers' cartoon comedy? Why not have the dwarf smash through a dungeon wall, or drop an anvil on someone while we're at it?

 

[Kelek72]

Are you currently high?

(not that there's anything wrong with that...)

Boo...Drug jokes...Yeah, actually its illegal and in poor taste.
I don't want to be a stick in the mud but when somethings wrong, say its wrong.