DMs: How available do you make magic items? And what about the craft feats?

[Aaron2]

Originally posted by Zogg Getting to the point: I think all DMs should create lists of magic items that are available in a town. I know this creates extra work for the DM but in the long run it helps limit power-gaming and creates a real world that is kept OUTSIDE of the DMG. I also hate the craft feats and think they should either be eliminated or require even more XP than they already do.

Am I ca-razy?

I for the most part just go by the GP limit on page 137 of the DMG. They work pretty well; You need at least a large town before you can get a +1 item. I let my players buy the basic stuff: +1 weapons, +1 armor, +1 cloaks of resistance, +1 rings of protection etc all they want. I consider that level of magic item to be simple enchantements and not special.

Plus, I also let the players buy their plusses one at a time. So, if they have a masterwork axe, they take it to the nearby temple and pay a 2,000 donation and the priest will make it a +1 weapon. Later, they can pay another donation of 6,000 and it will be a +2 weapon. I'm not sure if this is by the rules or not. I let the players with the item creation feat do the same thing.

Unless I had a computer program that would do it for me, there is no way I'd waste the time creating a list of available magic item for a large city. I'd rather spend that time working on the adventure.


Aaron (I'm out of control!)

 

[Sejs]

Just a point - Bendris Noulg, your post was about how you handle things in your campaign, yes? Otherwise, I'd like to duscuss a few of your points with you.

^_^

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Yep, being that the topic of the thread is "How available do you make magic items? And what about the craft feats?"

Whatcha wanna know, or would you rather take this to e-mail (to avoid becoming the "Bendris Noulg's Magic Item Creation Rules" thread)?

 

[sithramir]

magic

I don't get where you people see that magic items are so rare. Perhaps its because I play Forgotten Realms, but thats why they put a GP limit on towns. If you go to waterdeep people WILL sell the items for gold. Its happened once or twice in a novel. The unique part is that most people don't have 12000 gp's. Maybe this seems low to a lvl 12 character but compared to 95 percent of the population its an insane ammount of money so they are UNABLE to buy them. Perhaps you can say powerful items are rare., but finding +1 to +2 items in a big town is no problem. These are called "minor" enchantments.

If you ever read a novel where merchants and rich families have magic items its due to this nature of towns. If you can't "buy" it i'm sure you can pay a wizard to make you one. If you think a powerful wizard has enough gold and or wouldn't take just gold for an item you aren't in the mindset of a lot of powerful wizards. They need a continuous flow of gold for experiments of whatever. If you pay 12000 for an item they can make it for 6000. Thats 6000 gp profit which could supply a decent army for some time.

Those of you who say magic is super rare in your campaigns thats fine dont' get mad at me. I'm just saying thats how it is seen by me when I read Forgotten realms campaign and their novels and plus the obvious fact that wizards don't just make magic items and then suddenly lose them all to be found in dungeons and in treasure piles.

Just remember a wizard could spend 8 hours and enchant a +1 armor and make 500 gps profit doing it. I'm sure since there are large ammounts of mid level wizards who'd do this for a slight profit now and then. Then think about the fact that there have been wizards like that for 100's of years and the idea of there being basic minor magic items for sale makes sense. I understand saying something really powerful is very rare.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Re: magic

If you pay 12000 for an item they can make it for 6000. Thats 6000 gp profit which could supply a decent army for some time.

Actually, as a player, I'd rather put the 12000 into a bigger army.

As for FR... Well, you've pretty much listed what I don't like about it. Granted, I could play a FR campaign, but I'd likely start over with the silver-grey 1E box set, when most of the for-sale magic was still locked away in ancient tombs and ruins waiting to be (re)discovered.

 

[maddman75]

They are simply too rare and valuable to part with for mere gold.

Nonsense. This was the party line in AD&D, and it didn't make sense then either.

The *player characters* often have items that they can't use, or can't make good use of. Say they find a +1 flaming bastard sword. A nice weapon - but if there's only two fighters in the party, one with TWF and the other who uses a shield, it isn't much use to them. They'll likely want to sell it. Down the street is another adventuring party who will want to buy it. This is the basis for an economic system. One person wants to buy, another wants to sell, and someone in the middle makes money.

That isn't to say its completely open season. Selling items can be problematic in that while the local hedge mage would be happy to buy their unwanted loot, he doesn't have enough coins to pay them for it. They may end up bartering or trading for items they want or need.

Another factor is time and availability. When I place a hedge mage, I'll decide what level he is and what he can do. The guy in one town might be able to brew potions and craft wonderous items, but you have to travel to the next city to find someone that can Craft Magical Arms and Armor or Craft Wands. In addition, they aren't likely to simply have exactly what you want on hand. They may have a few of the most common items on hand - healing potions, dagger or longsword +1, but that's about it. Anything else will have to be custom crafted, and that takes time. IMC the group can seldom afford to sit around town for a month while the local hedge mage makes new toys for them.

There's really two types of items to me. There's the regular items described above, and the special items. Swords with a long history and unique ability, armor of long dead heroes, etc. The mystery and magic of these items are not at all impacted by craft item feats.

In my newest campaign, I am playing with a new mechanic, though. There's a rare gem that is needed to create magic. Only the dwarves still have active mines, and they guard them jealously. However, you can extract the gem from an existing item to make a new one, converting 1/2 the value into components for a new item. Mechanically, this is exactly the same as selling unwanted item A and using the money to buy weaker but more desired item B, except that half the total value MUST come from this source. But it has more flavor and gives me free plot hooks. Rumors of a new mine, stolen shipments, lost caches of the gem, etc.

 

[DragonLancer]

My view (as a DM) is that the craft feats (other than scribe scroll and brew potion) should be restricted. It's the DM's job to place magical items in the game for the players. Its not for the players to create items that they want. And its not right for the DM to turn around and say "no, I don't want you to make that."

 

[der_kluge]

<plug>

Tell your DM to pick up a copy of the Artificer's Handbook, by Mystic Eye Games. It should be in stores at the end of this month. It's at the printers even as we speak. If nothing else, it will spark a discussion over magic item creation, and the ins and outs of how it affects the game.

</plug>

 

[blackshirt5]

I like leaving the Craft feats available(actually, IMW they've been narrowed down to 3 feats: Craft One-Use Item, Craft Charged Item, and Craft Constant Item. The first covers Potions and Scrolls, the second covers Wands and anything with charges, and the 3rd covers Weapons, Armor, and anything that is unlimited use).

However, Magic Items are more expensive to craft unless you have access to magical components(bits from the dreaded black lotus flower for poison weapons, red dragon fangs, you know, the usual), which are definitely being used to generate adventures later on in my game.

 

[Aaron2]

My view (as a DM) is that the craft feats (other than scribe scroll and brew potion) should be restricted. It's the DM's job to place magical items in the game for the players. Its not for the players to create items that they want. And its not right for the DM to turn around and say "no, I don't want you to make that."

Isn't restricting the item creation feats the same as the DM saying "no, I don't want you to make that"?

I think its groovy that players can design the perfect magic item for their characters rather than forcing them to use whatever is just lying around.


Aaron