DMs: How available do you make magic items? And what about the craft feats?

[Nephet]

Magic items are not available in shops except in cases where adequate security can be maintained - almost nowhere.

Magic items can be special-ordered by PCs if they can find someone that has the feats and can acquire the ingredients.

For PCs, item creation feats are only restricted in one way - I don't allow the PCs to just spend gold to make an item. Most of the items have special ingredients that must be acquired before the item can be made. The more rare or expensive the item, the more difficult it is to procure the ingredients. Sometimes even the recipe is lost and it must also be aquired in some manner.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

They are simply too rare and valuable to part with for mere gold.

The game wasn't designed that way. It can be done (if you don't mind making spellcasters more powerful than other classes) but it takes more work to balance things.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by maddman75:

Nonsense. This was the party line in AD&D, and it didn't make sense then either.

Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead:

The game wasn't designed that way. It can be done (if you don't mind making spellcasters more powerful than other classes) but it takes more work to balance things.

True, the game was designed that way, but I have always found that aspect silly. I prefer to run low magic games, so magic cannot just be bought or made easily, and while there might be a market for selling some items, more often people will take what they cannot buy (whether by theft, murder, etc). Not to mention the fact that the authorities in an area would be rightly concerned if characters started selling potent items or weapons without permission. Also, buying and selling items would likely collapse the local economy, sending the whole region into economic chaos as currency is sucked out of it.

 

[jmichels`]

[
Getting to the point: I think all DMs should create lists of magic items that are available in a town. I know this creates extra work for the DM but in the long run it helps limit power-gaming and creates a real world that is kept OUTSIDE of the DMG. I also hate the craft feats and think they should either be eliminated or require even more XP than they already do.

Am I ca-razy? [/B]

Nope, that is exactly what I do for the magic shops in my game. I keep a list of the various items for sale in the town as well as the merchants names. Many times the merchants come and go since most regular people don't buy magic items since they are far too expensive. Also most regular commoners and tradesmen won't need a +1 flaming bastard sword for anything. It was extra work having to make this list up and alter it every now and again. But it helps the vermisillitude of the setting to see the same people selling different magic items at different times.

The craft feats I leave as is because many times it is quite a blow to waste one of a mages few feats on these things and then nerf it with a lot of extra restrictions. The exp expenditure is sometimes quite a hit because earning exps IMC is sometimes difficult and very dangerous. The party has to work for the exps so they won't squander it on frivoulous items. When they make something it is something definately needed by a PC.

Also I try to provide opportunities for the PCs to use their gold so they don't just horde it to make items. They have other obligations such as maintaining a keep, business, wizards tower etc. Another thing I do is have a host of people wanting to borrow money from the rich adventurers. Some of these people are charletons but some are just honest business men who know that good hearted PCs are free with their money and won't clap them in irons if they can't pay debts.

 

[Sejs]

My view (as a DM) is that the craft feats (other than scribe scroll and brew potion) should be restricted. It's the DM's job to place magical items in the game for the players. Its not for the players to create items that they want. And its not right for the DM to turn around and say "no, I don't want you to make that."

As both a player and a DM I disagree with you. Alot. The DM should have the balance Yea-or-Nay vote because it's their job to keep things running smoothly.

However, saying that 'Oh, NPCs can make magic items but Player's cannot' just sucks. Why can an NPC with the same levels, feats, spells and resources make a Sword of Ownage or a Robe of the Flaccid Kobold, but a PC with the exact same levels, feats, spells, and resources cannot?

 

[jmichels`]

That about handles the undermining-quality of the Item Creation Feats rather nicely (and explains why many NPC spellcasters are reluctant to sell the items they make). [/B][/QUOTE

Wow, do mages in your campaign actually use their feats on item creation stuff?

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Wow, do mages in your campaign actually use their feats on item creation stuff?

Yep, but rarely for anything minor. Rather than a gazillian wands of cure [X] wounds or +1 weapons, they instead make it a life-goal to fashion a Staff of Power or a +5 Demon-bane, and other campaign-altering items of significant power.

Which, consequently, is the intended goal.

 

[maddman75]

Yep, but rarely for anything minor. Rather than a gazillian wands of cure [X] wounds or +1 weapons, they instead make it a life-goal to fashion a Staff of Power or a +5 Demon-bane, and other campaign-altering items of significant power.

Which, consequently, is the intended goal.

If I may ask then, where do the long swords +1 or wands of cure light wounds come from in your campaign. That's another thing that bothered me about AD&D - what 16th level mage risked a point of con to make a lousy +1 sword?

Or are all the swords in your campaign +5 demonbane? Masterwork till you hit 15th level?

 

[Aaron2]

Originally posted by Gothmog Also, buying and selling items would likely collapse the local economy, sending the whole region into economic chaos as currency is sucked out of it.

Sorry, I'm not buying this. Why would the 1,200 gp for a +1 breastplate cause "economic chaos" when the 1,500 gp for plate armor would not? Magic items are no different that high value gems or wonderful works of art. Do art dealers "collapse the local economy" as well?

This thread has really opened my eyes. I had no idea that so many people had such problems with characters buying or crafting dinky +1 weapons. I still can't figure out why.

Aaron

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Aaron2:

Sorry, I'm not buying this. Why would the 1,200 gp for a +1 breastplate cause "economic chaos" when the 1,500 gp for plate armor would not? Magic items are no different that high value gems or wonderful works of art. Do art dealers "collapse the local economy" as well?

No, modern art dealers don't collapse the local economy, one reason being that modern currency has grossly overinflated value. If you try to take that same work of art you'd sell for 5 million in New York and sell it in a town of 20,000 people, I can almost guarantee you there will be economic repurcussions. Secondly, there isn't a demand for these kind of exotic items. Yeah, you could take your +2 mace to the local blacksmith and try to sell it, but he likely won't want it, and wouldn't have the money to pay for it anyway.

If you use the guidlines given in the DMG for town wealth, anthing up through a large town (GP limit 3000) would be economically crippled by the sale of a +1 breastplate. If the DM decides to allow for the sale of magic items, then only a large city or metropolis could begin to support such a trade, and likely with heavy regulations enforced by the local nobility.

Also, many people seem to be overlooking one vital aspect about buying and selling magical items and what would be restricted goods (heavy armor and martial weapons). The problem is that if we use medieval society as a guideline (and D&D assumes that by default), the nobility in an area would prohibit sales of restricted items to those they didn't want to have them (ie, anyone not in their employ). This would help them cut down on crime, rebellion, banditry, as well as allowing them to have more power over the populace. Think about it- if you were a noble would you want any mercenary or yahoo adventurer able to buy half plate, bastard swords, or magical items? I think not. Also, a non-noble owning a sword in many medieval European countries was a crime punishable by death, because the sword was a symbol the noble's power and was the cutting edge military technology. Finally, heavy armors almost have to be commissioned and individually fitted to the wearer, and hiring a blacksmith to make that armor for you would be expensive- hence the high prices of heavy armor. I'm always amazed at how people fail to consider the economic and political conditions adventurers would face.