D&D 5E (2014) DM's: How Do You Justify NPC's Having Magic/Abilities That Don't Exist in the PHB?

[Rabulias]

I don't think any version of D&D has ever explained everything to such a high degree. I remember AD&D 1e adventure modules often had areas with magical effects that could not be replicated by the rules, and players had no way to create them, short of a wish spell (and maybe not even that). These were crafted to provide interesting and unique challenges within the game.

 

[Lanefan]

The equation does tend to shift when you take something that already exists in the game and specifically make it harder to use. A big problem with house rules in general is that most of them make things harder for the PCs.

Depends on the edition. In 1e the houserules IME tended to make things both easier and harder, depending on the specific rule(s) being adjusted.

In 5e, which by comparison is pretty easy on the PCs, sure: most houserules are going to make it harder on the PCs because that's the intent.

It doesn't stop me, even when I am a player, from wanting those changes. But it can be tricky for many players to swallow.

I find this much more true of in-campaign changes, e.g. closing a broken loophole in the rules or banning/nerfing a broken spell, than of changes made between campaigns.

 

[Lanefan]

Pretty sure that’s a tautology.

How so? It's simply an extension of the risk-reward equation.

 

[Hussar]

How so? It's simply an extension of the risk-reward equation.

Heh. I find the opposite. The less forgiving the system is, the less likely a player will do anything that increases risk. My early edition players wouldn’t dream of doing anything that wasn’t 100% iron clad in the rules. Even things like 2e’s called shot rules were ignored.

Whereas in looser systems like 5e I have players trying crazy stuff all the time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Depends on the edition. In 1e the houserules IME tended to make things both easier and harder, depending on the specific rule(s) being adjusted.

In 5e, which by comparison is pretty easy on the PCs, sure: most houserules are going to make it harder on the PCs because that's the intent.

I find this much more true of in-campaign changes, e.g. closing a broken loophole in the rules or banning/nerfing a broken spell, than of changes made between campaigns.

I'm counting on you being right about that when I start my new campaign soon.

 

[Bill Zebub]

How so? It's simply an extension of the risk-reward equation.

The quote was: "If the potential reward is great enough, sooner or later someone will use it."

That's what the reward being "great enough" means, right? That somebody decides it's worth it. If nobody ever decides to go for it, that means it wasn't great enough. It's a self-proving sentence.

 

[Keovar]

Looking for some input on how you DM's justify in-game mechanics or magical effects that some npc's may have, but aren't listed in the PHB? For ex., you want your BBEG to appear in hologram/projected form before the pc's and kill one of his own minions with Power Word: Kill. His projected image then sits and has a conversation with the PC's, inviting them to join his forces.

Fun idea but there's nothing in the PHB to allow this specifically. How does one justify the fact that this individual has access to magic that isn't available to the PC's and what might you say to the party wizard who says they want to learn to do that?

Many thanks in advance for any thoughts!

I often say an effect is a variant of a similar spell. Maybe it has some downside that's anathema to the typical adventurer, but which the NPC doesn't care about. For example, maybe it causes a large amount of damage to the caster, but the BBEG is immune to that damage type. In Dungeons of Drakkenheim, there are 'contaminated spells' which give the caster levels of eldritch contamination. Build up a few of those, and you begin to mutate; build up six, and you become a monster that's no longer a playable PC.
Maybe the spell is unique, requiring individual research because someone else's version of it won't work. That could apply for some PHB spells too. I'd do that for Wish; you can't just take it upon level-up, nor learn it from someone else's spellbook or scroll, you need to spend 5 days of downtime and 250 gp on recearching, and it might take more time and money to find a source of the necessary ingredients. On the upside, if you burn out your ability to cast Wish, you might be able to research a new formula.

 

[Hussar]

See, I look at something like this:

and realize that there is no way that this would make a good thing for a PC, but, as an enemy? Fantastic. How does it disrupt all class features? No idea. It "disrupts your chakra". Or whatever. Who cares? It's cool, it's flavorful and it most certainly doesn't need to be explained.

 

[Lanefan]

See, I look at something like this:

View attachment 268192
and realize that there is no way that this would make a good thing for a PC, but, as an enemy? Fantastic. How does it disrupt all class features? No idea. It "disrupts your chakra". Or whatever. Who cares? It's cool, it's flavorful and it most certainly doesn't need to be explained.

Where I look at something like that and think "Hell, if that can be an NPC sub-class then why can't it be a PC sub-class?

Of course, then I'd have to design it from the ground up to lay out how and at what levels those various abilities kick in, assuming that hasn't already been done by whoever wrote that up.

 

[Hussar]

Where I look at something like that and think "Hell, if that can be an NPC sub-class then why can't it be a PC sub-class?

Of course, then I'd have to design it from the ground up to lay out how and at what levels those various abilities kick in, assuming that hasn't already been done by whoever wrote that up.

Go nuts. But, for me, why would I bother? No player will ever have that ability. It's largely useless for a PC any way since, unless you are attacking "classed" individuals, the ability has no effect. Which means that actually, it would be entirely useless against NPC's - NPC's in 5e don't have classes. NPC's in most editions don't have classes.

That's a purely meta-game ability that pretty much only functions against PC's. It wouldn't even function against a PC's pet or summoned creature. Well, other than dealing damage I suppose.

But it makes one heck of a cool ability for an NPC. Worked absolutely fantastically when I used them in my last adventure. Total shock on the faces of the players when you tell them that their main caster just lost all their spell casting ability.