DMs -- How Open Are You to Suggestions?
- Thread starter Mordane76
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Drakmar
Explorer
I am open to ideas.. just not necessarily for example, a fully polished new PrC. I prefer for them to come up with the idea.. and then I will manufacture the PrC. Now.. for me.. something I LOVE for my players to do.. is to flesh a Culture out more.. if they right it down, and give it to me, I run with it.
Sir Whiskers
First Post
Ok, I'll be the first to admit I'm not terribly open to suggestions, at least that's not my first knee-jerk reaction. I'm very much of the school that says it's much easier to say "no" initially than it is to take something away later when it turns out to be unbalanced. Maybe the best way to say it is: once burned, twice shy.
That said, if a player wants something for the flavor (as opposed to min/maxing), I'm more open. If the idea is clearly tied to my campaign, versus something the player read in the latest Dragon, I'm more open. Even in those cases though, I still view the suggestions through the twin lenses of "game balance" and "fun".
I've seen too many players (myself included) push for an idea because it would give great new abilities and such, or just sounds so cool. Those things can easily create too much imbalance, which can ruin the fun, which can kill a campaign.
A similar problem comes up if a player wants to create a character with a certain flavor which doesn't fit the campaign or the group ("My character is a greedy loner who never trusts anyone. He's out for himself and couldn't care less what happens to anyone else.") I've actually gamed with players who wanted to run such characters, and it never helped the group have fun.
Like any GM, I'm always pleased when players want to take the campaign in new directions, because it means my world has begun to take on a life of its own. Such moments are a real validation for a GM. The GM's job, however, is to make sure all the players have fun, which means sometimes saying no. Hopefully, not often, but still sometimes.
That said, if a player wants something for the flavor (as opposed to min/maxing), I'm more open. If the idea is clearly tied to my campaign, versus something the player read in the latest Dragon, I'm more open. Even in those cases though, I still view the suggestions through the twin lenses of "game balance" and "fun".
I've seen too many players (myself included) push for an idea because it would give great new abilities and such, or just sounds so cool. Those things can easily create too much imbalance, which can ruin the fun, which can kill a campaign.
A similar problem comes up if a player wants to create a character with a certain flavor which doesn't fit the campaign or the group ("My character is a greedy loner who never trusts anyone. He's out for himself and couldn't care less what happens to anyone else.") I've actually gamed with players who wanted to run such characters, and it never helped the group have fun.
Like any GM, I'm always pleased when players want to take the campaign in new directions, because it means my world has begun to take on a life of its own. Such moments are a real validation for a GM. The GM's job, however, is to make sure all the players have fun, which means sometimes saying no. Hopefully, not often, but still sometimes.
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
Sure, why not listen to players' ideas? Sometimes they turn out to be brilliant. You can always say no if you think it doesn't fit, or is unbalancing. I love it when players help fill in cultural details. In my online game of long ago, the helf-elves ended up liking extremely spicy curry, wearing brightly colored layers of embroidered silks, and refusing to do manual labor. Only one of these features came from me.
I do have to say, though, that if a player wants a certain prestige class, I'll have to think long and hard about it. Lots of them that I've seen are, hmm, problematic.
I do have to say, though, that if a player wants a certain prestige class, I'll have to think long and hard about it. Lots of them that I've seen are, hmm, problematic.
arwink
Clockwork Golem
I'm open. I've got one PC aiming towards a player created Prestige Class, and I'll try to work in whatever anyone else wants.
I mean, it's only about thirty or fourty percent my game. If the players aren't involved and having fun, they don't play. Then it becomes a hundred percent my game, but it's nowhere near as much fun
I mean, it's only about thirty or fourty percent my game. If the players aren't involved and having fun, they don't play. Then it becomes a hundred percent my game, but it's nowhere near as much fun
I like to think I'm reasonably open minded, although my track record on the issue might suggest otherwise... But that's mainly because I haven't had very many players who asked to create new races or prestige classes, and those who did, generally either came up with stuff that was either:
Insane: "Yeah, I'd like to make a prestige class for my character that's about being a really amazing fighter, and for one of the abilities I'd like him to be able to take an extra partial action each round but it could only be used for an attack of some kind."
A bad fit: A race of cat-like furries with an Oriental flavor for a (somewhat) gritty FR game taking place in the Western Heartlands and Silver Marshes.
On the other hand, I never had problems letting players make small changes to existing classes, swap a class skill or two for the sake of character background or flavor, suggest a house rule of some kind, etc. Generally, as long as it's not something that's being done to get a mechanical advantage, I'm pretty easy-going about it.
Insane: "Yeah, I'd like to make a prestige class for my character that's about being a really amazing fighter, and for one of the abilities I'd like him to be able to take an extra partial action each round but it could only be used for an attack of some kind."
A bad fit: A race of cat-like furries with an Oriental flavor for a (somewhat) gritty FR game taking place in the Western Heartlands and Silver Marshes.
On the other hand, I never had problems letting players make small changes to existing classes, swap a class skill or two for the sake of character background or flavor, suggest a house rule of some kind, etc. Generally, as long as it's not something that's being done to get a mechanical advantage, I'm pretty easy-going about it.
Black Omega
First Post
I like the idea but I'm sometimes more cautious. Had a player wanting to do a Fey'ri (Monsters of Faerun) and the creature just seemed to have far to much for the +2 ECL suggested. That time just didn't work out.
I'm open to ideas and suggestions, though. If I had an idea for a race or PrC for a game, I'd prefer working with the GM to come up with something agreeable than letting him do it all himself. So as a GM I'd try to be open to working with someone. It's just more fun.
I'm open to ideas and suggestions, though. If I had an idea for a race or PrC for a game, I'd prefer working with the GM to come up with something agreeable than letting him do it all himself. So as a GM I'd try to be open to working with someone. It's just more fun.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
I am very "setting conscious" - as my campaign world is "my baby" - so things like PrC are tightly tied to existing organizations or cultural ideas. I might take some advice about something I made up or some house rule, but ultimatly it is up to me to actually do it - and I wouldn't have it any other way.
For example, if a player said to me, "I want my character to come from a tribe of wolf-riding elves - so that later I can qualify for some PrC with cool elfin wolf-rider powers" I would say, "No, there is no such thing. There are cavalier-like elves in this other place in the world, but they ride horses." Or whatever the case may be. However, I am always willing to work through various ideas and shape something together that fits the setting and its history - and hopefully something he/she will be happy with - but guess what? Even if you convince me that I should invent a PrC for this idea - you are not going to know wxactly what it does or what the requirements are until it comes time in-game for you to look into joining that order or organization or what have you *
On the other hand, when coming up with a character background I encourage players to make up as many details about their home town (or wherever) that they like (and I usually provide them with a basis if it is a place that has already been detailed in my notes or a past campaign)--including NPCs, places of business, local legends, etc. . . I love that stuff.
I recently had a player make up a few dozen spells for my Aquerra Player's Handbook - but I did not seem him doing that in his role as a player in my game - but as a friend helping me out - He knew that his character might not ever get even one of those spells.
*Note: I am more flexible about PrC requirements because players don't know what they are. If you want to be a great sword fighter - just keep taking skills and feats related to becoming that - and maybe one day I may introduce a sub-plot involving a master swordsman and then say "Hey! You have the requirements to be a duelist! " And then let it be known - he must either defeat this NPC swordsman in a duel or be taken on as a student to gain the PrC. But the point is no two members of the same PrC will have exactly the same requirements - because I let the story determine when it is appropriate in addition to the "rules".
For example, if a player said to me, "I want my character to come from a tribe of wolf-riding elves - so that later I can qualify for some PrC with cool elfin wolf-rider powers" I would say, "No, there is no such thing. There are cavalier-like elves in this other place in the world, but they ride horses." Or whatever the case may be. However, I am always willing to work through various ideas and shape something together that fits the setting and its history - and hopefully something he/she will be happy with - but guess what? Even if you convince me that I should invent a PrC for this idea - you are not going to know wxactly what it does or what the requirements are until it comes time in-game for you to look into joining that order or organization or what have you *
On the other hand, when coming up with a character background I encourage players to make up as many details about their home town (or wherever) that they like (and I usually provide them with a basis if it is a place that has already been detailed in my notes or a past campaign)--including NPCs, places of business, local legends, etc. . . I love that stuff.
I recently had a player make up a few dozen spells for my Aquerra Player's Handbook - but I did not seem him doing that in his role as a player in my game - but as a friend helping me out - He knew that his character might not ever get even one of those spells.
*Note: I am more flexible about PrC requirements because players don't know what they are. If you want to be a great sword fighter - just keep taking skills and feats related to becoming that - and maybe one day I may introduce a sub-plot involving a master swordsman and then say "Hey! You have the requirements to be a duelist! " And then let it be known - he must either defeat this NPC swordsman in a duel or be taken on as a student to gain the PrC. But the point is no two members of the same PrC will have exactly the same requirements - because I let the story determine when it is appropriate in addition to the "rules".
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