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DMs: What Powers Do PCs Get That You Hate?

the Jester

Legend
Exactly what the title says. What powers do pcs get that you hate as a dm?

For me, there are only two powers that I've seen in play that I hate: a cleric power called steel to glass that pretty well shuts down a single bad guy by giving him a horrendous until-end-of-encounter attack penalty, and the damned halfling reroll. Ugh! I hate missing with my best power because of that!

How about you?
 

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Aulirophile

First Post
Honestly? I hate it when a PC picks a really poor power and then I have to watch them use it, to little or no effect, or not use it at all (which is even worse) until they level up and retrain it. As a DM I want the players to win and feel good doing it. When they pick up a power I think is awesome and can really single-handedly turn the tide in a fight is when I get the most excited to be the DM.

Bell Ringer (Fighter level 1 Encounter) is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say a poor power. I just felt bad for the fighter who had to use it for the first part of KotS, and he got rid of it ASAP.
 

MortalPlague

Adventurer
...a cleric power called steel to glass that pretty well shuts down a single bad guy by giving him a horrendous until-end-of-encounter attack penalty...

You mean Iron to Glass, I believe. And yes, I revile that power. I mean, seriously...

"Hit: Until the end of the encounter, the target takes a -4 penalty to melee damage rolls. Whenever the target hits with a melee attack, the penalty worsens by 2 to a maximum of -10."

What?! So if you're fighting a solo, this completely shuts him down. I'm just not a fan of debuffs like this.

On the other hand, in every game I've played in so far, the halfling reroll has become a running joke for its general lack of results. It never helps. In fact, once or twice, it's turned a hit into a crit.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I will also agree with powers that make a solo effectively a unic (or however you spell it:))


I've got no problem with a power that deals greivous damage to a solo, throws him across the room and knocks him on his butt. That's cool and cinematic, and when he gets right back up and gives the same to the party you know its on!


But the powers that turns a solo from a threat to a laughingstock are the worst.
 

Mesh Hong

First Post
Well I personally try not to hate any of the powers my PCs have but the following powers all have a major impact on my game (and the monsters really hate them!):

1: Discipline the Unruly (Paladin, level 25 Daily)
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, any enemy within 5 squares of you that hits or misses any ally takes 4d6 radiant damage and is blinded until t he end of your next turn.
Sustain: minor

especially when coupled with

2: In Defence of Order (Paladin, Chamion of Order, level 11 ability)
When you are adjacent to the target of your divine challenge, the target provokes an opportunity attack from you if it makes an attack that does not include you. Furthermore, your damage rolls against demons and elemental creatures that you challenge deal an extra 2d6 radiant damage.

and this is outrageous in the extreme:

3: Relentless Assault (Warlord, level 25 Daily)
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, when you or an ally scores a critical hit, you and each ally can make a basic attack as a free action.

As I said I don't HATE them, and I don't begrudge my level 26 PCs being truely Epic. But they have a massive effect on the game.

 

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son
On the other hand, in every game I've played in so far, the halfling reroll has become a running joke for its general lack of results. It never helps. In fact, once or twice, it's turned a hit into a crit.
I've had some great laughs with that one. "Hehehe... halfling dodge into hammer." I laughed even when our own halfling dodged into crits. I don't get to do that since she took Nimble Dodge...

Although our DM seems to dread almost all of our encounter powers, I think he harbours a special "GAH" for a few of them:
* Come and Get It. It sucks a big pile of monsters into a tidy little ball.
* Maze of Mirrors. -6 to attack is just brutal.
* Sand in the Eyes. The rogue that had it has retrained it out, but Wik HATED that per-encounter blinding power.
* Second Chance + Nimble Dodge. It's a super nasty combo.
 

Iron Sky

Procedurally Generated
I personally don't really care that much if one of my PCs use a power that nerfs an enemy; they need it with what I throw at them. However, there are some powers that I felt bad about even as a player sometimes:

Certain Justice - Champion of Order level 11 attack (whose name I forget): Marked target dazed + weakened until not marked. Really neuters solos/elites.

Solar Wrath - Radiant Servant 11 attack: used to wipe out whole encounters worth of minions and stun a couple fights full of demons, haven't seen it since it was nerfed. Almost every time our cleric used it, the DM would say "that's an encounter power?"

Lilting Songblade's item daily power: All allies get +4 to damage. Any time an enemy dies, add +2 to said damage bonus. In a fight vs mixed minions and regular creatures, at the end of the combat, we had something like +24 to damage rolls...

Knockout Strike - Rogue level 9 Daily: Our daggermaster saves this for bosses. KO + AP + another daily(coup de grace auto-crit), triggering daggermaster's Critical Opportunity attack power = a crap ton of damage(I've seen 250+ from the combo in mid-paragon when he crit with Knockout or Critical Opportunity as well).

Howling Strike - Barbarian Level 1 At-will: It's almost absurd how much damage the group's barbarian does with this thing when combined with all the charge gear. At level 11, it was something like 2d6(Brutal 2) + 3d6 + 1d8 + 15(add another 7 if he's got his Obsidian Steed out)

Sword Burst - Swordmage level 1 at-will: On its own, it's not too bad, but when combined with White Lotus Riposte/Master Riposte, Arcane Admixture(Thunder) + Echoes of Thunder + Aegis... enemy takes -3 to hit (Mark of Warding) and risks another attack(or nerfed damage if Shielding Swordmage) if he doesn't attack the Swordmage, ~4-10 auto damage(level dependent) and a repeat of Sword Burst if the enemy does attack the Swordmage. This is especially great when used in the middle of big piles of enemies (was even better before they nerfed Enlarge Spell).

Oh, also Astral Seal before it got nerfed.
 

babinro

First Post
Sorc: Encounter 17: PHB2: Thunder Summons.
I wouldn't really say I hate this power, however, it is way too powerful for my PC's to abuse. My PC's all have some pretty powerful burst powers. Thunder Summons can consistently group 2-4 enemies in a tight area from considerable range such that the PC's simply own the encounter.

Nearly every encounter the result of a Thunder Summons is at least 150+ damage with a high probability of dazed and immobilized creatures for the follow up round. By the end of the follow up round monsters in this group are either heavily bloodied, or dead depending on if any PC choose to expend stronger daily powers or action points. In either case, the battle is typically moot after this combination of attacks. Things continue to get worse as PC's level up because conditions go from dazed to stunned...allowing for even more lockdown on a condensed group of monsters.

This is more a case of my players working together to really get the most out of the 4E combat system, however, it makes challenging them in encounters very difficult. In my opinion, something as versatile as Thunder Summons really must be a daily power or perhaps allow a save on the teleport. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if this power flies under the radar for a lot of parties as it really isn't over powered in and of itself.
 

1: Discipline the Unruly (Paladin, level 25 Daily)
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, any enemy within 5 squares of you that hits or misses any ally takes 4d6 radiant damage and is blinded until t he end of your next turn.
Sustain: minor

especially when coupled with

2: In Defence of Order (Paladin, Chamion of Order, level 11 ability)
When you are adjacent to the target of your divine challenge, the target provokes an opportunity attack from you if it makes an attack that does not include you. Furthermore, your damage rolls against demons and elemental creatures that you challenge deal an extra 2d6 radiant damage.



I can see this Paladin is probably doing an incredible job of focusing attention on themselves, but considering the main effects don't trigger against enemies that do attack the paladin, are these really all that bad?

admitadely, close bursts etc become pretty bad...
 

Somebloke

First Post
Splinter the formation: That wonderous Avenger power that leaves my carefully designed, wonderfully overlapping in terms of powers monsters scattered to the nine winds and isolated. And heaven help them if there is a pit/cliff/body of water/difficult terrain feature nearby.
 

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