DnD Game Table- Why doesn't WotC get it?

[broghammerj]

Indeed. Why would they risk a new, untested product cannibalizing their core business? If the DDI is hugely successful, you may see a change in its business model. But they need a degree of risk management.

Because taking calculated risks in business can bring big rewards. The DDI could bring a revolution to the game. Right now on this board there are people who don't play DnD anymore because the no longer have a group. I am one of them. I live in Seattle, perhaps ground zero for 4E, and I don't have the time to find new people to play with. Those of us not playing don't buy books. If this works, they could be motivated to become what I would call an active customer again.

There are also two types of people looking at the DDI. First, are those that like the sum of its part for being a good well rounded product. Then there are those that are looking at some feature of the DDI and would buy it for that specific part.

I never subscribed to Dungeon/Dragon and could care less. WotC online freebies never appealed to me and I rarely visited their website. A character generator better be spectacular because the last one left such a poor taste in my mouth that it will be hard to overcome the stigma I have from the first go around. So far nothing has made me want the DDI. There is the online rules reference. We don't know what it looks like yet. For 120-140 bucks per year I could consider just buying the books I wanted anyways. The virtual tabletop could be very appealing.

DDI should be approached from the stanpoint of a service provided by WotC. If you allow open access to modding the Virtual Tabletop and release the software used to make the 3D graphics then you have people out on the net doing all the work. Suddenly you get 20 different version of a red dragon that people can choose from. Or new tile designs for the game. This is free to WotC since they're not hiring artists yet it makes their product more appealing since it has all this bonus material.

 

[the_redbeard]

There's much I like about DDI (ooooo searchable rules updated with errata that my group can share... that is an ongoing revenue stream that I will support.)

But I UNIMPRESSED with the Game Table.

There are free and single pay options that are, in my opinion, much better.

The only advantage that I can see of game table over the alternatives is that game table is 3D. That means models take more time and talent to make then say, tokens.
The 3D aspect may be a draw to folks that are new to the game.
But I really don't think it enhances the table top experience.

For the rest of us, I think the other options are much, much, much better.

*Create your own maps in a variety of graphic programs, from paint to photoshop to tools like dunjinni suited for map making.
*Use other user created content downloaded from the web. The Dungeon Crawl Classics are available for download, and modules from Dungeon are available from Paizo.
*Fog of war! Many of the programs have the capability to dynamically display light and vision.
*Already cross-platform. Most are already available and able to connect whether you've got Mac, Windows or Linux.

I was originally attracted to the idea of the game table, but I've been using Maptool for months and the comparison shows the DDI game table lacking.

 

[Irda Ranger]

You speak of the devil ...

Indeed. Why would they risk a new, untested product cannibalizing their core business? If the DDI is hugely successful, you may see a change in its business model. But they need a degree of risk management.

And he appears...

I think it would be the height of stupidity to give away a free tool that would allow you to print the same dungeon tiles (albeit on a lower paper stock) as what we sell for $9.95. That was my point to the answer directed at me during the demo although I was more diplomatic when asked.

The devil reference is a joke of course. I have a great deal of respect for the work the 4E devs are doing on the Core Rules, and I'm glad Scott et. al. make an effort to respond to our concerns.

BUT, Scott's comment ("I think it would be the height of stupidity to ...") confirms mine: DDI was deliberately designed to not cannibalize an existing business. Put another way, one division of the company demanded that another division deliberately break their own product.

This reminds me of a story about GM. They invented a transmission that would reduce fuel consumption by 10%. The "problem" (if you can call it that) was that this 10% improvement made the engine simpler to build. It needed less parts. Meaning it needed fewer line workers. And so the improvement never happened ... until the Japanese came along and ate their lunch.

It is NEVER a good idea to put a broken product in the marketplace. It will die. The money spent on it will be wasted, your customers will lose respect for you, and they'll look to your competitors to treat them better. Moreover some other company (one without a dungeon tiles business to protect) could release a much simpler, cheaper, and non-broken competing product and put you out to pasture.

You think I'm exaggerating? Game table is a shared world, a voip client, and dice roller program. That's about it. The hardest part of that is the shared world part, but lots and lots of companies are trying to make that cheap and easy. Check out the Multiverse client, which is free to download and start development on. All the art aside (which you can buy pretty cheap as long as you're not picky), two CS majors in their dorm could do this. There is no technological barrier to competition.

As I see it, WotC has three ways of protecting DDI from competition that would surely kill it:

1. It can use the walled garden of DDI (Dragon, Dungeon, character generator, rules database and game table) to lock competitors out. This is the AT&T/Verizon strategy, forcing you to buy their phones if you want on the network.

2. It can use its IP and its GSL to stifle innovation and put the legal choke-hold on little-guy startups who love this hobby. aka, the RIAA/MPAA strategy.

3. It can use its real profit centers (the books, tiles and minis) with higher barrier to entry to cross-subsidize the cost of the online tools and put competitors out of business by underpricing them. i.e., the Standard Oil / Microsoft vs. Netscape strategy.

Does anyone at WotC who isn't wearing their tie too tight really think that any of these are good idea?? Do any of these options appeal to all the employees there?

I realize that Scott can't answer my question, so it's not really fair. I'm sure he's got some leeway to state his opinion, but I doubt that he could say "Yeah, the whole strategy is FUBAR." (If that were his opinion). So I don't really expect a response. That's too bad. But this is how I feel. I expect a lot of people feel the same way. I hope Scott, or someone else at WotC reads this (and posts like it) and at least internally debate among themselves whether they should look for the better way.

But to repeat Fifth Element's question:

Why would they risk a new, untested product cannibalizing their core business?

Because if WotC doesn't, someone else will. Because if you're afraid to innovate, you get eaten. Because it's dumb not to.

If you don't innovate you get to choose between out of business or belligerent and bullying. Who wants that choice?

 

[Colmarr]

Scott,

I have to agree with some of the others above.

I am very excited about the virtual tabletop, but reports seem to suggest that it will only allow you to use Dungeon Tiles to build, and I am not interested in a map builder with those limitations. There are other online products that offer more freedom and just as much versatility as WotC's offering.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Copying is not free, if you're referring to using online-generated maps as a substitute for physical map tiles. By the time you pay for paper and ink/toner, it might have been cheaper to get the tiles themselves, which have the bonus of being reusable and much more durable.

If I did start using the map generator, I doubt I'd be using it as a direct substitute for tiles. My printer can't handle paper sizes big enough to substitute for a battlemat anyway.

I was speaking strictly within a digital context (at the online game table). Did I misunderstand something?

 

[hong]

I was speaking strictly within a digital context (at the online game table). Did I misunderstand something?

Wasn't the controversy about how the DDI competes with WotC's own dungeon tiles?

I'm so confused now.

 

[broghammerj]

I was speaking strictly within a digital context (at the online game table). Did I misunderstand something?

Wasn't the controversy about how the DDI competes with WotC's own dungeon tiles?

I'm so confused now.

The answer is sort of. I think the view of DDI as being online version only is short sighted. There are a billion uses for it.

1. Online tabletop to allow people to play with old gaming groups or play with people all over the country. (Current model of use)

2. I could see puting a video cable out of my computer into my bigscreen TV and using it as our in home battlemat. That would be supercool because the graphics are far better than I could draw.

3. Have you seen how wicked cool SteelWinds digital projection of a battleboard? http://www.enworld.org/printthread.php?t=122099&page=1&pp=30 The DDI could help him!

4. Do you want to print out tiles to lay down on the table for your home game? The DDI could help. (Yes, this competes with Dungeon Tiles. The goal would be to sell more subscriptions to DDI to offset the cost of killing Dungeon Tiles )

5. Are you a DnD minis player? Use the DDI to create new battle areas to print out for your table.

I could go on and on. Instead we get a somewhat limited online tool which is not available for free modification by the general populace. This is where I think WotC shows itself as a publishing company and not a softwhere company.

 

[broghammerj]

reports seem to suggest that it will only allow you to use Dungeon Tiles to build,.

Wow, I did not catch that on first read! I went from possibly considering to no way am I purchasing.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Scott,

I have to agree with some of the others above.

I am very excited about the virtual tabletop, but reports seem to suggest that it will only allow you to use Dungeon Tiles to build, and I am not interested in a map builder with those limitations. There are other online products that offer more freedom and just as much versatility as WotC's offering.

In the dungeon builder (the free app) you can use tiles that are preloaded into the application or make your own maps with a combination of drawing tools and either preloaded elements like a stone texture and/or import your own images into the builder.

These can then be exported to the game table.

 

[Jorunkun]

If creating maps - to print out, project onto a table or wall or for use in online play - is what you want to do, there are already half a dozen much more powerful applications available. For example, check out MapTool, which is free.