DnD on Microsoft Surface Update

[falcarrion]

And as I listed, for most consumer applications a real PC would be the better alternative compared to surface. That will slow down the adoption rate.

Just read Mistwells link. Most things Microsoft talks about are bussineses, not consumer.

There main focus is for businesses. But they also stated that they are also looking at selling to the cunsumer.
Take a look at this article Would you pay $1,499 for the Microsoft 'Oahu' Surface table? | All about Microsoft | ZDNet.com

 

[Derren]

No one's really sure what exactly it will be used for yet, since the technology is so new, but to pretend that you can somehow know at this moment that there will not be a significant market for it down the line is just wrong.

And you can't know that there will be a significant market for it.
And considering how many "technological revolutions" turned out to be flops and that so far no one can think of anything which might be useful for consumers on surface I am pretty confident that surface too will not be "the next evolution" of the PC.

There main focus is for businesses. But they also stated that they are also looking at selling to the cunsumer.
Take a look at this article Would you pay $1,499 for the Microsoft 'Oahu' Surface table? | All about Microsoft | ZDNet.com

Just making it affordable doesn't mean that people will buy it. That microsoft makes a survey means that even they aren't sure if consumers will buy it. And only consumers would be interested in a surface PnP programm.

This technology would see more application when made into small tablets (sized like an Ereader, thus portable) which communicates with a central server in the house and can store data and access the web. That would be much more useful than a big, stationary "I can resize pictures but nothing really useful" surface.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Thats one of the coolest things I've seen!

Lets hope WoTC sees this, and hires them instead of sending them a Cease and desist order.

 

[kenmarable]

The Microsoft Surface? Big cumbersome thing without as much functionality as a computer with a cool interface.

The idea, the concept, is great- but it's current form sucks.

Once the technology is there to say build multi touch into smaller things like LCD screens, and such, I can see it exploding, but computer/coffee table?

I just don't think the current form is going to be the one that makes the concept explode into houses around the world.

I'm really excited about the possibilities of this, but I agree with you entirely on the current offerings. It's a long way from being practical, but it's a start. Unfortunately the design behind the Microsoft Surface isn't set up to scale down in thickness well. But there's plenty of other multi-touch technologies that can scale in thickness, and I'm sure even more waiting to be invented that can potentially shrink that down to be placed anywhere.

And now guess with what you will type faster. A real keyboard which gives feedback or a virtual one. Surfaces looses again. Space isn't much of an issue because of foldable/flexible keyboards.

Actually Apple currently has patents (and possible R&D products being tested) for tactile feedback on touch screens. Once that gets practical, you'll improve keyboard use as well as open up a lot of other possibilities - like braille iPhones.

But I assume that within our lifetimes standard mouse & keyboard interfaces and freestanding computer boxes and screens will be archaic. Computing will be built into other products and/or become so miniature that they might as well be built in. Voice recognition and touch interfaces will replace inferior keyboards and mice. Heck, in the radiology office I work at, our doctors spend the entire day on the computer reading exams - and never touch their keyboard. All they ever use is a fingerprint login and a speech mic with built in trackball (and they'll be happier when we get rid of the little bit of trackball use).

 

[mudbunny]

And now guess with what you will type faster. A real keyboard which gives feedback or a virtual one. Surfaces looses again. Space isn't much of an issue because of foldable/flexible keyboards.

That is because that is what we (this generation and before) are used to. The generation that grows up with surface will be used to typing on it. You can see this with kids these days typing on a cell phone that isn't qwerty. They are used to typing on it, so they have developed the ability to type fast on it.

Surface has nothing going for it (on the consumer market) other than being "cool" and new and some fun applications. But the functionality is behind specialized devices or PCs.

Of course it hasn't. When computers first came out, there was *nothing* useful for them for the consumer market. Look at them today. The house that doesn't have a computer in it is considered almost abnormal. To expect a metric butt-load of utilities, software and other applications for it, before it has become common is just silly. As the price drops, and it starts to approach affordability for the average person (say around the $1500 price point), and it starts making some inroads into the consumer market, you will see applications that people want for it and it will become more and more popular.

Much like mobile apps as well. Until the iPhone became popular, the mobile app industry really didn't exist. Now, it does.

As it is, once it becomes popular, I see CAD drawing and other architectural/engineering programs becoming fairly popular, as long as it can be provided enough processing power. But, to be honest, increasing the processing power of something like this is, I assume, so trivial as to be not any sort of challenge at all.

 

[RangerWickett]

What I would be interested in buying (when I'm making more money than I am now) is a 'Surface' that can tilt.

Option A - Desktop
Remember Star Trek the Next Generation, with their handy touch consoles? Remember how they weren't parallel to the ground? They were maybe 45 degrees tilted, so you could read them without having to crane your neck.

Have something that can tilt, less than a meter across, something that will fit on a typical desk at home, at a library, or at work.

You can either have it tilted for everyday use (typing documents, browsing the internet), put it flat down if you and your friend want to play air hockey or minesweeper or something, our tilt it vertical if you just want a screen to watch things on.


Option B - The Big One
A dining table-sized 'Surface,' which can tilt from dining table to white-board/television, and which you can control either by touch or by wireless keyboard/mouse.

Mount it on a sturdy axis so it can either sit flat or perpendicular to the ground. If the legs had lockable wheels so I could roll it against the wall or out into the center of a living space, that would be ideal.

I figure you'd put it in your living room or study/office. When you have a big group activity or just want a lot of space to work with, you have it in table mode, and you use it as a touch screen, probably relying on the on-screen keyboard if you need to type things.

Or you can put it in screen mode, for movies/TV/Modern Warfare 3, or for presentations like a whiteboard, or as just a computer screen if you want to sit on the other side of the room and control it with a wireless keyboard and mouse.

If you want perfect functionality, you model the wireless keyboard on one of those nifty laptops they have now where the screen can swivel and flip shut so the screen is facing out, only with this one you can also choose to have the keyboard side up. That way, it can work as a laptop on its own, or you can use it to control the Surface screen at home.


Basically, you try to get the perfect mix of TV, desktop computer, laptop, and remote control. And make sure it can tilt, because nobody wants to use the screen while standing all the time.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

List them.

Surface is inferior for most consumer applications compared to a PC, Mobil or specialized input device.

Games? Can't do FPS and other mainstream games.
Office applications? Don't need multitouch for that. Also, lack of keyboard and awkward screen to read from.
Art? Tablets (Wacom for example) already offer everything surface can do.
Picture Editing? Surface does not offer any advantages over a PC with Photoshop.
Video editing? You need massive processor power for that. Surface will hardly have that. Also, see picture editing.
Media browsing like on an IPod? Get an Ipod. Its cheaper and portable.

No one will buy surface for board games, D&D and some odd, once in a year, applications. Its more something for businesses than for consumers.

I would buy surface for boardgames at the right price point. I used to play World in Flames in college with a friend, and we have often talked about doing it again but it takes too long to play and we don't have the time.
Now they are supposed to be bringing out a pc game version but I am not sure. For a wargame like that being able to lay it out on a large table is much better than a monitor.

So if some-one offers to bring out a surface kit for 300 euro and all the old SPI/Avalon Hill games, I would be very likely buy.

I agree that it is not much use for many existing application except meeting/video conferncing but for old style monster hex wargame it is ideal. The machine does the setup, the number crunching and you can have multiple players both local and remote. You play for as long as you have time, save the state and resume when the players schedule allows.

I would go for it and I know about a dozen people who would also.

Now I don't know of there are enough of us lovers of the old monster wargames to make this the killer app for Surface, I doubt it but if it drop to the price of a console and someone makes those types of games then me and other like me will buy them and unlike the tons of cardboard moldering on our shelves these we will get to play.

 

[RangerWickett]

As for applications:

Kids
Kids love to touch things. Have painting programs, games where they can move puzzle pieces around, or control an action figure, or draw race tracks and then use a different part of the screen to control a car at the same time. Heck, that would be fun - you're driving, and you have one guy making the course, the other player trying to survive it.

If the screens can tilt, it makes it easy for them to show the class what they've drawn.

Get multiple kids all learning at the same computer workstation. Give them styluses and let them practice their handwriting.

Let them improve their spatial reasoning, by showing a labyrinth from top-down and first-person perspective. Heck, any sort of interactive teaching tool that kids can touch will probably sell like hotcakes. (The problem is, of course, when kids touch the screen after eating syruppy hotcakes.)


Engineering
Drafting, collaborating, manipulating stuff from different angles.

Ditto for art of any kind.


Video Games
If I touch here and here and rotate, the camera spins. If I move my fingers closer together, it zooms in, and if apart, it zooms out. If I move my fingers up or down on the screen, the camera raises or lowers. Great fun when you're exploring the beautiful vistas of some new RPG, or looking for clues in an adventure puzzle game.

Heck, you could play an FPS just as easily as with a keyboard and mouse. Your left hand controls the directions just as with WASD, plus any other buttons (which can be mapped more ergonomically, instead of having to rely on a keyboard), while your right hand aims and shoots (different weapons based on how many fingers you tap with.)

Rock Band's fun, right? Well, how about we get all experimental and give each person their own keyboard, which can be mapped to different instruments, so you can jam out with all sorts of crazy acoustic combinations. Or add in a freaky "paint the music" option where you dab your fingers in different sounds and slather them across the screen, trying to create a picture and music at the same time. It could be freeform, or you could have an Okami-style game where you have to use different types of sound to solve musical puzzles.

There are tons of things you can do with a touch screen, and as long as the engineers figure out a way to integrate everything a TV can do now with what a touch screen can also do, we'll all be out of maple syrup.

 

[falcarrion]

I have seen slanted tables. I have see walls that where multitouch.
There are thousands of people building there own tables.

 

[Treebore]

If they can get it down to about a thousand, and have it be comparable to my computers, and have software like the D&D demo, I'll be one consumer who will buy it.

One thing it does is look very interactive for a group of people, such as my family, or gaming group, etc... very appealing.

With such group interactivity imagine the future of games and software in general.