Do Bards still suck?

[Corwynn Maelstrom]

All I have to say is: the Archeologist Archetype combined with Vagabond Child trait means no more Rogue needed. The Bard can handle all of the rogue's utility duties (even better actually than a Rogue in some cases) and when built up as an Archer can do very well indeed as ranged damage.

Sure, others can fight better, but can they handle all the rogue duties plus replace the need for the wizard's knowledge skills?

Add in Lingering Performance and all of the sudden the Bard can use Archeologist's Luck pretty much every combat of the day. (Gives you essentially 3x the duration, as all you do is pulse it once every three rounds.)

To be honest for the game I'm working on a bard is going to be the party's leader and will be handling all the rogue duties, has heavy access to knowledge (every single one) and can hold their own in combat.

My estimation, yeah, bards are awesome.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Lingering Song is awesome with Archaeologist, and actually makes Extra Performance basically +18 rounds, possibly also worth taking.

If think Archaeologist is the best Bard archetype to prestige class out of, though. The class level has no bearing at all on rounds/day, and rogue talents are pretty meh (on the other hand, since you actually have use for charisma, dipping Ninja for a ki pool and ki-based ninja tricks is a possibility, rogue talents can be used to buy them), so post level 6, IMHO, the biggest losses are the extra +2 on your luck and the spellcasting. Unfortunately, PF has pretty terrible prestige classes, so I'm not sure any are worth leaving Bard for, anyway.

 

[Corwynn Maelstrom]

The campaign in question is a Pathfinder group so the bard has the Maestro of the Society trait which is an extra 3 (9) rounds.

Assuming you don't take the liberal "oh, it just says level" view of the archetype, you need the extra levels to power Archeologist's Luck (which is like extra BAB and damage, bringing the bard closer to full BAB higher feat/bonus ability specialists) and their abilities to disable device (which is one of the main reasons to choose this specific archetype) . . .

Besides, really, Bard (Archeologist)/Ninja? Is this a roleplaying game or a roll-playing game?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Archaeologist is in its very description, a rogue-like Bard. A ninja is a charismatic rogue, at least in Paizo's minds. I see no fluff reason why they shouldn't make sense to combine.

And yes, you need levels to increase the bonus. But I'm skeptical that an extra +2 past level 5 by sticking around for 12+ more levels is really worth it. Also, losing the capstone without any replacement is kinda grating.

If a prestige class advanced the casting at full or nearly full rate and gave interesting class features, I think that would be more preferable than a few rogue talents and another +2. Sadly, there is no such prestige class to meet those rather narrow guidelines.

Thinking up a Divine Hunter Paladin / Archaeologist Bard / Ninja focused on archery and being sexy (massive charisma) right now. Tentative concept would be Pal 2 / Bard 12 / Ninja 6, though not in such a clean progression order as that. Kinda requires a common sense houserule that you can take master Tricks with Advanced Rogue Talent to be worth going so far in Archaeologist, though.

 

[gamerprinter]

In our upcoming Way of the Yakuza for Kaidan, we've got a blind bard called a Moso. Although moso are indeed blind, not being able to read scrolls or other types of magic that require readiing, they have an acute sense of hearing, granting them able to tell friend from foe within 20' of them. (Which increases by 5' every 4 levels) and suffer no penalties in melee combat. (If someone successfully makes a stealth check, the moso doen't notice them).

A moso performance skills include: Ward (a protection from evil to listeners), Counterfear (replaces fascinate), Song of life - damages undead, Dismissal (as spell), Soothing performance gets bumped up to 18th.

Interesting build, and better off than a blind oracle.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Besides, really, Bard (Archeologist)/Ninja? Is this a roleplaying game or a roll-playing game?

But that's the best idea for a character ever! You're a rocking ninja who goes into tombs for knowledge!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Actually, archaeologists have to give up on being a rock star. No performance abilities at all.

Not that a Bardinja hasn't been done before

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMcemeW5Byw[/ame]

Yes, she's fighting with a guitar.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I just wanted to say that bardnja was awesome.
Great video.

 

[blargney the second]

I tried the Strength-dominant bard that I learned to love on DDO, and it fits amazingly well with the PF bard. Basic idea: buff & smash, then patch up the party afterwards. If your Charisma is reasonable, grab the occasional debilitation spell like glitterdust or sound burst, and drop them judiciously.

Right now I'm trying to find some info on how the arcane duelist's bonded weapon works. Level 5 is coming up quickly, and I had some questions when I finally read up on the details of arcane bond.