Do I have a problem with this Sacred Fist ability?

[Apok]

Regarding the relative power of NSB v. Quivering Palm...

It all depends on what you consider more powerfull. The Quivering Palm ability is basically a limited application Save or Die spell. It has the potential to be really nasty, but it has it's limitations (once per week usage, doesn't work on creatures immune to crits, and victim's HD must be lower than the Monks level). No Shadow Blows, on the other hand, is more universally applicable since it enchances your attack & damage rolls. It is more utilitarian and less flashy, but it is always active and works no matter who you are fighting.

It's really a toss-up and depends on what you like more; consistant damage or that occasional one-shot-one-kill opportunity. Given that, especially at higher levels, the Save or Die aspect of spells and abilities becomes much more prevalant, the NSB becomes somewhat less usefull as you face enemies with more and more HPs. On the other hand, once a week isn't much and you really have to work on getting that DC up to worthwhile levels.

As far as the Shiba Protector goes, yeah it is kinda odd. The idea behind the PrC is that they act as bodyguards and defenders of the Phoenix Clan Shugenjas. I guess they figured a mix of offense, defense, and weird stuff that lets them support a Shugenja ally was the way to go. They are okay on their own, but really shine when working hand-in-hand with a Shugenja.

 

[Victim]

No Shadow blows, or whatever it's called, is 10x the ability of quivering palm. Quivering Palm would let a monk kill an opponent once a week if he fails a save. An enhancement bonus equal to Wis would let a monk hit much more often and do lots more damage - I'd expect a 15th level monk to have at least a +6 Wis mod, especially if he knows he's getting the Wis bonus to attack and damage. With that damage increase, he won't need instant kills. Against weaker opponents without lots of toughness- the same type that Quivering Palm would be effective against - a full attack with that kind of damage bonus would probably be enough to finish. And that could be used once per round, not once per week.

 

[Immort]

The sacred flame ability of the sacred fist dioesn't list a duration specifically. It mentions that it may be combined with flurry of blows, which implies to me that it lasts one round, is there a more definitive answer on its duration?

-Immort

 

[Piratecat]

If there is no duration listed, it stays on until you turn it off. You could leave it on all day if you wanted to -- but it would make it hard to shake hands, brush your teeth or pat your wardog.

 

[Eldorian]

Speaking of the Sacred Fist.

My new epic treant is planning on taking this prestige class. I had a question earlier tho, does having a natural attack form, such as slam, count as improved unarmed strike? Or must I pick up a monk level (would require me to be lawful alignment for at least one level...)

I figure the sacred fist will make a good PrC for treants, especially since i can worship Fharlanghn for the Travel Domain, which I've always liked. (also gets me Wilderness lore as a class skill, and Fly on my spell list, neato!)

BTW, on the sacred fists bonus domain thingie, I DO add the domain to my spell list, right? The wording in the spells section is funny. Also, do I get a bonus domain spell per level?

Thanks

Eldorian Antar

 

[Eldorian]

On another note.. Puissant Fists stacks with No Shadow Blows for overcoming Damage reduction, right? That works for epic levels too right? I mean, I can have +9 to overcome damage reduction with my fists, given a +5 Wis mod. Also, would Puissant Fists, which has the same mechanic as Ki Strike, work for epic feat requirements? I see them as the same ability with a different name, and I've always tended to treat the same ability with a different name as the same ability. The good unarmed combat ones require ki strike, so this is imporant.


Also, I'd like to see an epic progression of this class.

What do you say, normal continued Uncanny dodge, a feat every three levels, increased caster levels on evens? More uses Inner Armor?

About Inner armor, it's an Extrodinary ability right? What kind of action to activate, a free one like Rage?

Eldorian Antar

P.S. man, more I look at this, more powerful this class looks.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

You could leave it on all day if you wanted to -- but it would make it hard to shake hands, brush your teeth or pat your wardog.

I'm patting my wardog right now, if you know what I mean, and I think you do.

As to my Sacred Flame:

I'm cool with it either way, I guess, though for undead-killin' goodness I hope it remains in its useful "flame weapon" analagous format!

Wulf

 

[Blood Jester]

Re: Re: Do I have a problem with this Sacred Fist ability?

Spell Resistance wouldn't apply as the flaming effect is being applied to the Sacred Fist and not the enemy. They are just receiving the secondary effect (damage), not the effect itself (flaming fist).

Just like a Flaming weapon will affect enemies with spell resistance.

Whoa! I realize who I am talking to about rules, but...

I've got to disagree with this logic. This would also say that Shocking Grasp ignores SR, or Chill Touch, etc.

Keep in mind, you are not using magic to set the SF's hands on fire, and then causing fire damage, the flames themselves are magical in nature, and thus should still be affected by SR.

Now, like most similar affects, you would make one initial test against SR, and the result (pass or fail) would stand for the rest of the duration of the effect (i.e. you could end your flames and re-activate them if you really wanted to try to bypass the SR after a failure) but SR definitely should count.


IM(strongly held)HO

 

[Quasqueton]

Whoa! I realize who I am talking to about rules, but...

I've got to disagree with this logic. This would also say that Shocking Grasp ignores SR, or Chill Touch, etc.

Keep in mind, you are not using magic to set the SF's hands on fire, and then causing fire damage, the flames themselves are magical in nature, and thus should still be affected by SR.

I was thinking this as well.

SR works against wall of fire, protection from evil (read spell text), shocking grasp, flame arrow, flame blade, and other spell effects that are cast on someone/where else but the effect affects another.

I think the comparison with a flaming weapon is erroneous. A flaming weapon is not a spell-like effect.

Quasqueton

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Re: Do I have a problem with this Sacred Fist ability?

Whoa! I realize who I am talking to about rules, but...

I've got to disagree with this logic. This would also say that Shocking Grasp ignores SR, or Chill Touch, etc.

More like saying 'Keen Edge' or 'Greater Magic Fang' would ignore SR, I think.

It all depends on whether the 'target' of the effect is 'creature touched', or whether it's the Sacred Fist. In the latter case, the fact that SR affects SLAs is irrelevant, since he's using the effect on himself.

Since the effect is not a touch attack (as shocking grasp or chill touch are) I'd say that it works like GMF/a flaming sword/etc

J