Do Magic Item "Shops" wreck the spirit of D&D?

[ThirdWizard]

If it wrecked the spirit of the game, then doing so would hurt my game. Since my game has only improved because of magic item shops (which I used long long before 3e came out), I can confidently say that they do not wreck D&D.

There's a huge gap between "wreck the spirit of D&D" and "some people don't like it" that needs to be admitted here...

 

[Emirikol]

if you go much beyond that magic items cease to be magical and wonderous, and players cease to feel like they've accomplished something important when finding a powerful magical treasure.

I always got a kick out of campaigns where the DM thinks really hard about a treasure hoard and the PC's promptly go out and sell the whole lot for quick cash.

I'm starting to think that player "mentality" is more like the MY-PAY-DAY-LOAN shops. GET FAST CASH NOW!!!! Other than the people that "must" use those kinds of stores...hmmmmmmm.....

jh
why make trillions when we could make...billions from our white trash magic shop chain?





..

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

Magic Item Shops do not wreck the spirit of D&D, but they do wreck the spirit of a large percentage of D&D settings including all of those that are loosely based on medieval/early modern culture, and all of those which lean toward heroic high fantasy, and all of those which lean toward Heroic Age pre-history.

That's pretty much how I see the matter. Also, I feel that the magic as a commodity mindset detracts from a lot of the reasons why magic is special in first place. There's no fear, no amusement, no excitement; it's just another way to do things; essentially it is technology seen in a different prism.

It works pretty well in some settings, Eberron for instance, but I believe it should feel more like the exception, not the rule.

In the end, the DM will choose if the commodity mindset is good for his campaign, but sometimes will have to argue with someone who came to the game during the days of 3E and believes that's the way things should always be (and this also ends up being a problem, as 3E also tries to move out of the "DM rules" paradigm into a "players rule" one).

Cheers,

 

[Stalker0]

One thing my group has often done with the magic shop idea is kind of a James Bondish motiff. We customize our gear for the mission at hand, just like Q would give Bond certain weapons to use. Part of the fun is planning the mission and our gear for success.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

There are some items that are just useless, that PCs should never be able to sell for full "book value" (and that a DM would be foolish to even create).

+2 Splint Mail: same AC as fullplate, with no Dex bonus possible and much higher cost.
Magic non-composite shortbow or longbow: why bother?
Non-returning magic thrown weapons of more than +1 bonus: pathetic range, poor rate of fire, middling damage, generally poor crit multipliers, and you run out of them quickly.
Weapons with non-synergistic bonuses: a keen wounding ghost touch weapon of throwing is nowhere near the value of a holy undead-bane ghost touch weapon of disruption.
Efreeti bottle. You'd have to be an utter moron to pay full price for the services of a hostile, resentful, powerful, intelligent evil outsider.
Bracers of Armor +5 or less (if the Twilight property exists)

 

[Jack of Shadows]

I always got a kick out of campaigns where the DM thinks really hard about a treasure hoard and the PC's promptly go out and sell the whole lot for quick cash.

I'm starting to think that player "mentality" is more like the MY-PAY-DAY-LOAN shops. GET FAST CASH NOW!!!! Other than the people that "must" use those kinds of stores...hmmmmmmm.....

jh
why make trillions when we could make...billions from our white trash magic shop chain?
..

This is a thing with a lot of DM's, they think they know what's best for the players and are then shocked when the players don't agree.

A good GM says, "welcome to my game." A great GM says, "welcome to our game."

Jack

 

[Andre]

There's a huge gap between "wreck the spirit of D&D" and "some people don't like it" that needs to be admitted here...

Agree 100%. This is like the arguments about "hack-n-slash" style games, or "powergamers" - the spirit of the game is having fun, not conforming to someone else's preferences.

 

[NanocTheCivilized]

Do not let magic become a commodity. Magical items should never be bought and sold like milk and eggs. Allowing PCs of any level to simply purchase magical items, or even to purchase magical supplies such as quills and inks for writing scrolls, takes some of the mystique away from magic and makes the whole world seem a little more commonplace.

It is not necessary to stubbornly forbid the buying and selling of magic; the key to keeping magic fanciful is to make sure that any transaction is an adventure of a sort.

Magical supplies should never have clearly marked prices and be sold from neatly arranged shelves—that’s too such like a modern supermarket.

Skip Williams in Dungeon Master Option: High-Level Campaigns (AD&D2, 1995)

Pretty much sums it up for me.

Nanoc

 

[Whimsical]

Check my sig to see why buying and selling magic items is a good thing.

Right now, I'm running Shackled City. There is a magic shop, but it has a specific inventory of around twenty items. But there are also alternatives to "the Magic Shop" that round out the experience. To start with, the church of St. Cuthburt sells low level clerical scrolls and potions.

There is also the Cathedral of Wee Jas. Magic item creation is an important duty of the church. I declared that the church would create and sell arcane and divine magic items of up to 6th level caster level at book price. Anything of higher caster level would require a favor from one of the high priests. This would take the form of a social challenge for the PCs to negotiate.

To buy a magic weapon or armor, the character needs to buy a MW weapon or armor from a weaponsmith or armorer, then take it to the church of Wee Jas to get it enhanced. In other settings, the martial churches would enhance arms and armor, or the weaponsmith would do it himself as part of the crafting of the weapon.

I have also added to Cauldron a noble clothier. The noble clothier makes the noble and royal outfits and jewelry for the upper crust of the town. They also sell enhanced clothing and jewelry. Mostly those items that would interest nobles. Clothing with illusionary highlights; appearance enhancers. Social skill buffers (such as the circlet of persuasion). Defenses against charms and compulsions, illusions and lies. Catch-22: to walk into the door, you must appear like you belong there. But they are the only clothier in town that sells noble clothing.

Gather Information, Knowledge: Local, and Knowledge: Nobility are invaluable skills to find buyers and sellers of magic items. You can find out who owns what in the area, then you can try to convince them to part with their item for cash. Just as magic items are more valuable than cash for PCs, there are NPCs on the decline that need to liquidate their assets to take care of other problems. And right now, their magic item is a white elephant. Or at least that is what the PC is going to try to persuade them.

Again, check out my sig for why being able to select magic items is the game within a game that is fun for PCs to play.

 

[Rolzup]

As a GM, I really dislike magic shops.

As a PC, I really like being able to equip my PC howsoever I like.

In balance, therefore, I'm leaning more towards my PC aspect's point of view. Empower the players as much as you can, sez I. IF -- and this is key -- that's what your players want. If they're happier prying their treasure from the cold dead claws of dragons, more power to 'em.

As to the shops themselves, well, there's any number of things you can do. Take a look at the Goblin Market from Neil Gaiman's Books of Magic for a classic sort of example.