Do Magic Item "Shops" wreck the spirit of D&D?

[molonel]

Artifacts, whilst in the DMG, were not given all of their powers. They had several blank spaces that the DM could fill in from the tables provided, so the artifacts could vary from campaign to campaign.

For example?

Not entirely true. The DMG had additional notes on several spells, containing material needed to adjudicate the spells. However, I think they rarely came up in actual play.

For the overwhelming majority of spells, the effects were laid out precisely in the PHB for everyone to see. There is no such equivalent listing for every spell in the DMG, and any adjucations were the exception, not the rule.

Ergo, saying that magic was mysterious and unpredictable in that game is untrue.

 

[painandgreed]

For example?

Sword of Kas, Hand and Eye of Vecna, Teeth of St. Cuthbert.

 

[MerricB]

For example?

All of the artifacts in the 1e DMG had things like:

Hand of Vecna... description blah blah... some basic powers... and 4 powers from table I, 3 powers from table II, 2 powers from table III, 1 power from table IV.

There were lots of blank lines then that you filled in yourself.

Cheers!

 

[molonel]

All of the artifacts in the 1e DMG had things like:

Hand of Vecna... description blah blah... some basic powers... and 4 powers from table I, 3 powers from table II, 2 powers from table III, 1 power from table IV.

There were lots of blank lines then that you filled in yourself.

Oh, you're referring to the random powers and drawbacks charts. Okay.

When I think of filling in the blanks, I think of writing stuff yourself. The powers of the various artifacts were filled in, and you could roll on those charts, yes.

But as we've speaking about already, randomness is not mystery. I remember reading through those charts, and thinking why would anyone ever use this crap?

You get a wart on the end of your nose?

Wow, that's epic.

And mysterious! And unpredictable!

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

 

[MerricB]

Oh, you're referring to the random powers and drawbacks charts. Okay.

When I think of filling in the blanks, I think of writing stuff yourself. The powers of the various artifacts were filled in, and you could roll on those charts, yes.

But as we've speaking about already, randomness is not mystery. I remember reading through those charts, and thinking why would anyone ever use this crap?

You get a wart on the end of your nose?

Wow, that's epic.

And mysterious! And unpredictable!

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

I noticed. The tables aren't random, btw. They're to be chosen by the DM - thus, a player who buys the DMG doesn't know what the exact powers each artifact has because they're only in his DM's copy.

Cheers!

 

[molonel]

The tables aren't random, btw. They're to be chosen by the DM - thus, a player who buys the DMG doesn't know what the exact powers each artifact has because they're only in his DM's copy.

I don't know that arbitrary is necessarily a step above random, mysterywise.

 

[MerricB]

I don't know that arbitrary is necessarily a step above random, mysterywise.

Err...

The players not knowing what the Hand of Vecna does makes its exact powers a mystery. Once discovered, they're no longer a mystery.

Not having the exact powers in the DMG preserves the mystery that bit longer. (For many players are also DMs...)

Cheers!

 

[Nightfall]

*likes players not knowing stuff* It's like Merric and me viewing Age of Worms from different angles. He liked Prince of Redhand. I did not.

 

[molonel]

Err ... The players not knowing what the Hand of Vecna does makes its exact powers a mystery. Once discovered, they're no longer a mystery. Not having the exact powers in the DMG preserves the mystery that bit longer. (For many players are also DMs...)

Many of the powers and drawbacks on those charts, though, weren't even options that anyone seriously considered. A lot of people just downright skipped them, because they were silly. Knowing that it had to come from a numbered list in the DMG just means it's a game to figure out which ones. Putting a padlock on the DMG wasn't an option in most cases, and I can't really say that keeping the book a hush-hush secret ever really improved the game.

The end result being, magic doesn't seem any more mysterious or magical to me because an item says, "Choose one from chart A, two from chart B and one disadvantage from chart C" than it does when it asks you to roll on a percentile table.

YMMV.

 

[molonel]

*likes players not knowing stuff* It's like Merric and me viewing Age of Worms from different angles. He liked Prince of Redhand. I did not.

I like incorporating new material into the game, actually.

But keeping the players in the dark about the basic rules, the functioning of their own spells and abilities and their gear?

Too much unnecessary work.

I'd rather be working on plot points, NPCs and monsters.