Do Multiclassed Epic Characters Get The Shaft?

[Ridley's Cohort]

Considering the very significant advantages of multiclassing for non-spellcasters, I do not see this as a problem.

 

[ichabod]

I personally think they get the shaft, and I don't see a good reason for it. I am planning on a house rule that if you are over 20th character level, and over 10th class level, you can switch the class to the epic progression if you want. However, you can't switch back.

 

[Catalyst]

The passage in the ELH that states you can take epic feats for your class bonus feats at any time over character level 20 has been called an error by Andy Collins.

However, I've read a lot of posters who will follow what's printed in the book, and I agree, for a couple reasons.

First, if you're a Wiz20/Ftr1, you are a much better fighter than a simple Ftr1. Probably not enough to jump straight to epic calibre, but also not novice enough to be stuck with the basics for another 20 levels IMHO.

Second, and most importantly, virtually every Epic Feat has very stiff prereqs. If you're going to restrict access to them so much, why bother making them so hard to get? A Ftr20/Wiz1 isn't going to get any powerful metamagic feats for bonus feats (no 9th level spellcasting ability or 24+ ranks in Spellcraft), and likewise a Wiz20/Ftr1 isn't going to have the BAB/25 STR/25 CON for most fighter feats. They're hard enough to get as is.

Bottom line: Add me to the folks house-ruling that once you have 20 class levels, you can use your bonus feats to choose from the epic list so long as you meet the prerequisites. 3rd Edition ushered in the era of creative character building with it's multiclassing rules, and I'm not going to throw that out the window just because the PCs are getting powerful.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Count me in the same camp. The above post are many of the exact same points I argued for following page 8 instead of Andy posting on his messageboard say "No, I don't think so." A poster then referenced page 8, and Andy did not comment further.

Those interested can find the relevant thread here:
http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm2.showMessage?topicID=35.topic

Once you have an ECL 20, any feat can be Epic. This is using my own opinion and the ELH, page 8.

 

[toberane]

The passage in the ELH that states you can take epic feats for your class bonus feats at any time over character level 20 has been called an error by Andy Collins.

However, I've read a lot of posters who will follow what's printed in the book, and I agree, for a couple reasons.

First, if you're a Wiz20/Ftr1, you are a much better fighter than a simple Ftr1. Probably not enough to jump straight to epic calibre, but also not novice enough to be stuck with the basics for another 20 levels IMHO.

Second, and most importantly, virtually every Epic Feat has very stiff prereqs. If you're going to restrict access to them so much, why bother making them so hard to get? A Ftr20/Wiz1 isn't going to get any powerful metamagic feats for bonus feats (no 9th level spellcasting ability or 24+ ranks in Spellcraft), and likewise a Wiz20/Ftr1 isn't going to have the BAB/25 STR/25 CON for most fighter feats. They're hard enough to get as is.

Bottom line: Add me to the folks house-ruling that once you have 20 class levels, you can use your bonus feats to choose from the epic list so long as you meet the prerequisites. 3rd Edition ushered in the era of creative character building with it's multiclassing rules, and I'm not going to throw that out the window just because the PCs are getting powerful.

Yeah! What he said!

Maybe you could go post this in this thread? I said basically the same thing there, but I think you said it better.

 

[Voadam]

Counter point

So if you pick up level 1 and 2 of fighter at epic levels you can use the class bonus feats for epic fighter list feats? Doesn't that give an advantage to someone multiclassing into fighter only at epic levels compared to the straight 21+ exclusive fighter (who doesn't get class bonus feats for two consecutive levels)?

Or am I misunderstanding and are you only saying the level not classed feats are epic.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Counter point

So if you pick up level 1 and 2 of fighter at epic levels you can use the class bonus feats for epic fighter list feats? Doesn't that give an advantage to someone multiclassing into fighter only at epic levels compared to the straight 21+ exclusive fighter (who doesn't get class bonus feats for two consecutive levels)?

Or am I misunderstanding and are you only saying the level not classed feats are epic.

yep they are saying the fighter gets their bonus feats as epic. And I agree with them. A character who is level 20 wizard who takes a level of fighter for the bonus epic feats isn't a problem with the rules, but a problem with the player. Same as if your fighter at level one decided to start as a monk for the +2 to all saves, evasion, 1d6 unarmed damage, good skill selection and 4x4 skill pointsand other benies, and then prompty became a fighter from then on. You don't have bad multiclassing rules, you have a bad player. Now if they have good legitimite reasons for multiclassing not allowing them to use their bonus feats as epic is putting a large hinderence on them that their single class brethren don't face.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Woot! I love the ELH!

Are all your Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue/Rangers getting annoyed that they can't twink at level 21?


My L21 Dwarf Fighter will kick all their butts! Finally, a reason to play a single-classed melee or archer character! Yay!

 

[kreynolds]

Woot!

Oh my god. Did you just say "Woot!"?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Oh my god. Did you just say "Woot!"?

Why, yes, and so did you.

Woot! Woot!