Do NPCs Get Personal FATE Points?

[RobShanti]

In the Fate Core system, there is no mention as to whether NPCs get built with their own personal FATE points (FPs). The Rules as Written seem to say in a bit of a circuitous way that NPCs don't get personal FPs like PCs do, but I have found at least a single contradiction in the rulebook.

I did a CNTRL+F search of the Core Rule .pdf, and every mention of FPs is in the context of PCs, not NPCs. Same with the term "Refresh"; in fact, page 49 of the Core Rulebook specifically says, "A player character in Fate starts with a refresh of 3" (emphasis added). In fact, the book is replete with references to Refresh specifically in terms of PCs, rather than NPCs.

On page 82, it says:

"GMs, you also get to use fate points, but the rules are a little bit different than the rules for players....The NPCs under your control....have a limited pool of fate points you get to use on their behalf. Whenever a scene starts, you get one fate point for every PC in that scene. You can use these points on behalf of any NPC you want, but you can get more in that scene if they take a compel, like PCs do."

But the book contradicts all these things on pg. 220, which may just be inartfully worded:

"Main NPCs are the closest you’re ever going to get to playing a PC yourself. They have full character sheets just like a PC does, with five aspects, a full distribution of skills, and a selection of stunts." (This isn't the contradictory part...notice how FPs are noticeably absent from this list...but the book goes on...) "Because they have all the same things on their sheet as PCs do, main NPCs will require a lot more of your time and attention than other characters."

If Main NPCs have ALL the same things on their sheet as PCs do, then they should have FPs too, shouldn 't they? Unless the book just meant more along the lines that all of the things on the Main NPCs' sheets appear also on the PCs sheets. I guess that's a fair reading of that passage, but it doesn't really tell us anything we haven't already seen in every RPG ever, so it seems to obvious to be a meaningful interpretation of that passage.

Also, the Core Rulebook recommends on pg. 223 that the GM "pre-load the NPC with some free invocations [of pre-created advantages] if it’s reasonable that they’ve had time to place those aspects. Use this trick in good faith, though—two or three such aspects is probably pushing the limit." I think that's definitely a good idea if your NPCs don't have their own FPs.

So, I'm getting the impression that NPCs are not built with personal FPs like PCs are, but rather all rely on the GM's scene pool of FPs.

So, if an NPC concedes in a conflict, or gets one of his aspects invoked against him, the FP that he would normally earn from that circumstance goes into the GM's scene pool, and not on the NPC's character sheet? What happens when that scene ends? Where does the NPC's earned FP go?

What if an NPC is built with one of those Stunts that requires a FP to activate it? Does that come out of the GM's scene pool of FPs?

 

[Umbran]

In the Fate Core system, there is no mention as to whether NPCs get built with their own personal FATE points (FPs). The Rules as Written seem to say in a bit of a circuitous way that NPCs don't get personal FPs like PCs do, but I have found at least a single contradiction in the rulebook.

There are a couple of places where there are seeming contradictions in the Fate Core SRD. You noted one.

There's another where at one point they talk of Supporting NPCs taking the Fate Points from Conceding, so that they come back stronger, while at another they talk about how fate points from Compels and Conceding should go into the GMs pool.

And, yeah, the seeming conflict is annoying

So, I'm getting the impression that NPCs are not built with personal FPs like PCs are, but rather all rely on the GM's scene pool of FPs.

Yes. I think the idea of the big Main NPCs having "everything" a PC does - that's in terms of having aspects, stunts, and stress. None of the NPCs are built with the same rules PCs are.

So, if an NPC concedes in a conflict, or gets one of his aspects invoked against him, the FP that he would normally earn from that circumstance goes into the GM's scene pool, and not on the NPC's character sheet? What happens when that scene ends? Where does the NPC's earned FP go?

The most consistent reading is that when an NPC is compelled, the points go into the pool. I the GM concedes for an NPC, the points go into the pool. If the pool ends with more points than it started, the extra points go into the next scene.

If the GM concedes for all NPCs in the scene, such that the scene ends, the points go into the pool for the next scene.

What if an NPC is built with one of those Stunts that requires a FP to activate it? Does that come out of the GM's scene pool of FPs?

Yep. Note: the GM is refreshing completely every scene, maybe with some points carrying over. The PCs are only getting their refresh back per session. PCs are much more dependent on the fate point economy than the npcs are.

 

[aramis erak]

Everything I've seen says "No, NPCs do not get their own."

That said, giving a major NPC a separate pool is not entirely untoward... but if you do, he only gets them refreshed by PC's tagging his personal aspects against them or compelling them via their aspects; don't let them tap the group pool.

 

[Umbran]

That said, giving a major NPC a separate pool is not entirely untoward... but if you do, he only gets them refreshed by PC's tagging his personal aspects against them or compelling them via their aspects; don't let them tap the group pool.

I'd advise differently - You can give an important NPC their own fate points, but only a couple, and (obviously) they only get to spend them for their own actions, not slide them into the group pool. The major NPC can also spend from the group pool - because that means the rest of the group drawing from the pool will be less awesome.

 

[Tonguez]

NPCs dont get fate points, just the GM pool.
Instead the GM gets to put Situation Aspects all over the scene which they can then compel to their hearts content. You also get bonus FP for every consequence an NPC suffers before the concede

my advice is be liberal with your situation aspects, and use multiple minion NPCs (which you happily concede) and compel at every chance so that your PCs have to pay up their precious FP

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I, generally, start with a pool of 1 FP/pc. If players compel an NPC, those FP go in the pool. I use a different, unlimited, pool for GM compels.
I’m pretty free with FPs, and minions, who are defeated, put their FPs in the pool for the Boss. I try to use those FPs up before the session is done so that the PCs are getting lots of compels and FPs which they can use for cool invokes. I try to encourage players to use FPs instead of horde them.

 

[Umbran]

I, generally, start with a pool of 1 FP/pc. If players compel an NPC, those FP go in the pool. I use a different, unlimited, pool for GM compels.

Yes, that's bog-standard in Fate Core.

I’m pretty free with FPs, and minions, who are defeated, put their FPs in the pool for the Boss.

I am not sure what you're saying here.

Fate Core recognizes three levels of NPC - Nameless, Supporting, and Main NPCs.

Namless NPCs are mooks and minions, and have maybe an aspect or two to give them some color and function. They don't typically concede, mostly because they are nameless, and you can't tell if the Mook you see in Scene 3 is the same person as was in Scene 1. They don't have fate points to put in the pool for their boss.

Supporting NPCs are lieutenants - they have names, and the GM is advised to specifically have them concede conflicts so they can show up repeatedly. When they do that, they leave fate points in the pool when they go.

Main NPCs are Bosses, central antagonists to an arc or campaign. They are statted out pretty much like PCs, full of aspects and stunts, with the exception that normally they don't have their own fate points. Interestingly, the core rules suggest that Main NPCs don't typically concede conflicts - presumably because you are only directly in conflict at them at a climax scene, in which case conceding would more often be anti-climactic.

 

[RobShanti]

Yes, the Core Rules recommends -- it seems in lieu of giving NPCs any FATE points -- giving NPCs "advantages" that they have "created" prior to the encounter with the PCs (if that could reasonably have happened). The book says to give an NPC one such advantage and that giving them "two or three is probably pushing the limit" (Core Rulebook, p. 223). So, in a way, that's KINDA like giving an NPC a FP, but one that is LIMITED to use in the circumstance described by the created advantage.

 

[GMMichael]

Why would NPCs use Fate points?

You use tokens to represent how many fate points you have at any given time during play. Fate points are one of your most important resources in Fate—they’re a measure of how much influence you have to make the story go in your character’s favor.

You can spend fate points to invoke an aspect, to declare a story detail, or to activate certain powerful stunts.

You earn fate points by accepting a compel on one of your aspects.

. . .

You spend fate points in any of the following ways:

• Invoke an Aspect: Invoking an aspect costs you one fate point, unless the invocation is free.
• Power a Stunt: Some stunts are very potent, and as such, cost a fate point in order to activate.
• Refuse a Compel: Once a compel is proposed, you can pay a fate point to avoid the complication associated with it.
• Declare a Story Detail: To add something to the narrative based on one of your aspects, spend a fate point.

Now, I'm not an expert , but invoking an aspect grants a +2 bonus to various rolls. As GM, you can add +2 to whatever you want, so that benefit is a wash.

Accept/refuse a compel: GMs compel, so I would hope you're not compelling yourself. If a PC's action, or fate point, creates something that looks like a compel on an NPC, you'd just be nerfing that PC's fun if you had (and used) an NPC fate point to reject it.

Declaring story details is the GM's job, so you don't need FP for that, either.

Powering Stunts is what's left here, and I suppose you wouldn't want to over-power your Main NPC's stunts. If the Main NPC might be overpowered, then 1 FP per player should be fine, right? If the Main NPC might be underpowered, you might want to be adding to the rest of its character sheet, not just the Fate Points.

 

[RobShanti]

Well, it comes up often in my games like this:

GM: Okay, the Big Bad Evil Guy goes first and rolls his Attack against you. (Rolls the dice) He gets a total of four. Roll your Defense.

PLAYER: (rolls and does his math) I defend with a total of three...but...(picks up a FATE chip), I have the aspect "Always at the ready," so, my three is actually a five.

This is where my NPC could use a Fate Point. The BBEG NPC has the aspect "Got it out for [this Player's character]" so he wants to invoke that to turn his Attack roll of 4 to a 5. So, I've always wondered if I need to use the GM's scene pool of FPs (1 FP per PC per scene) for this, or if the NPC is built with the same three FPs the PCs are built with.

Based on the input I've received here, which seems to corroborate what I gleaned from the passages I quoted in the OP, it look like the NPC is not built with his own FPs, but rather must draw from the GM's 1-FP-per-PC-per-scene pool.