Do official adventures follow DMG advice?

[dvvega]

In direct answer to the original poster:

You will find that in general the published adventures do not follow the DMG advice. However you need to take this with a bit of thought involved.

Why are they not written this way? Because they do not know your players and the characters they have chosen. They can only make the assumption that you have 2 Defenders, 1 Striker, 1 Controller, 1 Leader.

If they put in an encounter that required a skill challenge employing Diplomacy and Nature for example and none of your players took those skills, what would happen? Back in the old days there were modules that had encounters like this. You needed X and Y but the party had chosen Z so they got stuck.

Thus the general advice I can give is to keep along the path you are taking. Learn as much as you can about DM-ing from people on this board or others. Make small changes to the modules you purchase. For example change the monsters a little to suit your players if they're tactical players - make the groups larger with more Minions (just throw out a single monster from one fight and put in 4 Minions as per DMG rules).

Everything that you do to learn something about DM-ing is the right thing. The modules are decent purchases, however you need to realise that your group is not the "average perfect group" that the modules are written for.

Lastly I would not recommend Paizo modules for their encounter balance to a novice DM. They have great background and story, however many of their encounters can turn out to be TPKs. They need a lot of work to make them "safe" for 3.5/3.75. However a new 4E DM may be able to sit down with one of the modules and create a conversion for 4E as practice.

D

 

[S'mon]

Lastly I would not recommend Paizo modules for their encounter balance to a novice DM. They have great background and story, however many of their encounters can turn out to be TPKs. They need a lot of work to make them "safe" for 3.5/3.75.

Would increasing PC level work? 2-4 levels higher than listed? Would you need to increase the rate of XP gain also? Wondering as I haven't bought any Paizo 3e modules and I'm thinking of checking them out.

 

[dvvega]

By all means check them out ... on of the things I've noticed are monsters with Power Attack when 3.5 has a major problem with AC cap for most players. The monsters benefit from Power Attacking more often than not.

But a couple of levels may help if the players get their kill on faster. But as of my experience they are not 100% balanced to the level they claim.

D

 

[S'mon]

By all means check them out ... on of the things I've noticed are monsters with Power Attack when 3.5 has a major problem with AC cap for most players. The monsters benefit from Power Attacking more often than not.

But a couple of levels may help if the players get their kill on faster. But as of my experience they are not 100% balanced to the level they claim.

D

Thanks - I'm not a novice DM, but many of my players at the club are novices. I've noticed that the shift from 3e to 3.5e made monsters with 2-handed power attack far more lethal; and this wasn't accounted for in CRs.

PC Armour Class can be assisted by giving out plenty of protective devices. The problem in core 3e though is that if you try to help the 'meat shield' by giving out +5 full plate, the Wizard player will make him sell it for money to divvy up among the group.

 

[dvvega]

The best person to have them is a non-novice DM and the players don't matter directly because the DM can adjust.

But I find Power Attack to be a problem with 3.5 and the Paizo modules have PA all through them. And not just for tanks but spellcasters with a good BAB as well.

D

 

[Jack99]

They are right that WotC has a long history of writing... not well-reviewed modules and the best company for providing modules stayed in third edition. The second best adventure-writing company, however, went fourth edition. So go check out Goodman Games.

Out of curisoity, what is the "best company for providing modules?"
Thanks.

Please remember that some of the people commenting on WotC's ability to make adventures are talking about the past, before 4e.

For what it is worth, I think that WotC has vastly improved themselves with 4e, when it comes to adventures. Goodman games also are making some great stuff. Just as good as Paizo and Necro did for 3.x.

 

[catsclaw227]

Lastly I would not recommend Paizo modules for their encounter balance to a novice DM. They have great background and story, however many of their encounters can turn out to be TPKs. They need a lot of work to make them "safe" for 3.5/3.75. However a new 4E DM may be able to sit down with one of the modules and create a conversion for 4E as practice.

Paizo modules and APs can be meat grinders, but this is OK of the players are decent. For 3.5m there will be a greater propensity for the 15min adventuring day, but that's because they are really tough.

Many of the APs were written with the experienced player in mind, and there's presumably some assumption that the players will optimize their chars. Not that this is bad, mind you, but the adventures are tough.

I wouldn't up levels, but instead you can have some combats end quicker or let a monster/NPC attack miss that would otherwise hit. I think the best way to handle these adventures is to roll behind the screen. There will be some extra PC deaths otherwise.

Do your players trust your DMing if you don't roll out in the open?

 

[S'mon]

Do your players trust your DMing if you don't roll out in the open?

Personally I've always done my rolling in the open. I can't see the point of rolling if I'm going to change the result. This can result in high PC mortality if the adventure author assumed the GM would fudge in favour of the PCs.

 

[catsclaw227]

It's not that the adventure writer assumes the GM will fudge. It's just that the Paizo adventures are really tough, and the window of error is much tighter. I am not sure if bumping up levels is right though, because some adventures assume a certain degree of limited access to certain abilities.

i.e. A tough adventure for 3rd -4th level PCs would change fairly dramatically if the PCs got a level bump or two and had access to 3rd level spells (5th level). Access to certain abilities might be part of the assuptions put into the design of the adventure.

Do you roll your listen, search and spot checks out in the open?

 

[S'mon]

i.e. A tough adventure for 3rd -4th level PCs would change fairly dramatically if the PCs got a level bump or two and had access to 3rd level spells (5th level). Access to certain abilities might be part of the assuptions put into the design of the adventure.

Do you roll your listen, search and spot checks out in the open?

The players roll for their PCs' listen/spot/search. I roll for NPCs, but I don't necessarily say what I'm rolling for.

I take the point about the 3rd level spells break point, though plenty adventures have listed levels which straddle it, and plenty of 5th level parties don't have a Wiz-5 in the group, or one without Fly/Fireball etc.

I find one of the best ways to increase PC power in 3e is for them to have more than standard magic items. It has several benefits - it reduces the power disparity between classes and if it becomes a problem it is self-correcting; if the GM just starts giving out normal wealth the disparity from standard WBL will diminish rapidly. A level or two above listed helps a lot too though, especially at low levels.