Do spells end with the death of the caster?

[Wellby]

Dear Friends,

A Rogue PC enters a room, the monster there, a minor demon, successfully casts 'charm monster' ordering the Rogue to leave the room and never enter it again.

He runs out, the rest of the party enters and kills the demon. For fun, I have banned the Rogue from entering to search the room, and plan to until the spell would normally have run out.

However...what's the rule on this?

 

[Starbuck_II]

First, Charm Monster only has the ability ask/order if they win the charisma check. Did they win the charisma check?

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do.

So he isn't "ordering" like a robot. But as a friend he values the advice of the creature. Charisma check is to see if he will follow it.

 

[udalrich]

The death of the caster doesn't end the spell.

If the spell had a duration of concentration, then it would obviously end with his death (although you could argue that it continues until his turn in the initiative order).

 

[Dredan]

Every round after the monster is dead, the rogue would make a charisma check as mentioned earlier. Since the actual monster is dead there is no opposed check and he should be able to enter again, affectively negating the spell, but there is always a chance for a 1 hehe.

 

[Physiker]

I don't see why there should be an "opposed" charisma check every round.

Scene:
Monster casts Charm Monster on Rouge.
Rogue fails saving throw.
Monster asks his new friend to stay away from this room because if he stays he distractes the monster from an important goal, and no real friend would want to do that.
--> Opposed Charisma check. (Actually I wouldn't even call for an opposed charisma check because I think it's a reasonable request.)
Monster wins opposed charisma check.

Monster is slain.
The rouge will still refuse to go to the room as long as the spells duration lasts, and even beyond that if the request from the monster was reasonable.
If his other friends, namly the party make him go into the room (by force or by telling him the monster is dead / bluff ) he will see that his monster friend is dead which will end the spell, because in my example the rogue can't distract the monster any more.
This does not mean that the rogue will not take actions against the killer(s) of the monster.
But since in your case the killers are his friends too, the spell would probably just break at this point.

The only spells which end with the dead of a monster are the one which require concentration.
Note that if the monster had cast a "dominate person" spell the rogue could try to make his save once every day after the monster was slain, because of the spell description.

 

[Wellby]

Thanks for the responses so far.

It is indeed a grey rule.

A) yes, the Rogue failed the charisma check

B) I see no basis anywhere for 're-rolling' the charisma check every round. Haven't done anything of the sort since 1st edition charm spells and see no reason to start now!

C) Unfortunately, the wording in the adventure, Red Hand of Doom, did indeed say 'orders' PC to wait outside of the room. As pointed out in this thread, this should have been 'suggested', or 'asked' of the Rogue, not 'ordered'.

In the end, the rule is simply not clear on what might happen should the spellcaster die. But there is something to be said for the DM being allowed to have fun. The rogue knows he's the victim of a spell. His fellow PCs have told him the room is now empty and they desperately need him to help search it! Alas, I see no good reason to allow him to ignore the charm effect in his head, cast at the 12th level no less, asking him to please not enter the room (for 12 days!)

thanks, and any other thoughts more than welcome.

Wellby

 

[Kylas]

Hmm not sure if I missed something but do spells actually end with death of caster? Spells like forbiddance or consecrate? I'm assuming no.

 

[Theroc]

Rogues generally aren't monsters... why would "Charm Monster" work on them?

Or did you mean "Charm Person"?

 

[Dandu]

Charm Monster covers people as well.

 

[Jhaelen]

Rogues generally aren't monsters... why would "Charm Monster" work on them?

Or did you mean "Charm Person"?

Are you joking?

Charm Monster is simply an improved version of Charm Person that also effects creature types other than humanoids.