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Do these combat manuevers seem balanced?

Making some changes, noted in orange.

Brace: as a move action, gain a +4 to resist Trip, Bull Rush, and Overrun – though you suffer -4 AC to avoid being hit by these same attacks. You may maintain this as a free action, but you may not move while maintaining it. If you move (willingly or not) or fall prone, you cease to be braced.

It was suggested to me that this manuever is weak. Do others concur?

Death from Above: as a standard action, drop onto a target unaware of you and make a melee attack with a +2 to hit and +d4 per 10’ fallen damage. If you hit, you take d4 per 10’ dropped (with a Athletics check to reduce damage) and the target must make a Strength or Balance check DC 10 + damage from your attack, or be knocked prone. Whether or not you hit, you make a DC (20 + 2/10’ fallen) Balance check or fall prone as well. If you miss, you take full falling damage, and provoke an attack of opportunity. You also need to make the Balance check to avoid falling prone. If your target is aware of you, he gains a bonus to AC equal to 2 + his Reflex save.

Change the DC to keep balanced to DC (20 + 1/10' falling)

Defensive Sunder: as a standard attack, attack a foe’s weapon as they attack you with it without provoking an attack of opportunity. While doing so, you gain -2 dodge AC against attackers other then the one you are performing a Defensive Sunder against. You may only perform this maneuver against a foe that attacks at your initiative or less – and you lower your initiative to your foe’s initiative by virtue of using this maneuver.

Clarify & limit the action: This is now a standard action, it is declared at the beginning of your round, but is not applied until the foes round. If the foe does not attack you - or does not use a weapon in his attack, this action is wasted.

Ignore Foe: as a free action usable once per round, you can choose to ignore an opponent to focus on another in melee, preventing one foe from gaining flanking against you, but at the cost of treating the ignored foe as being invisible to you. Additionally, ignoring a person inflicting damage on you is difficult when they hurt you - you provoke an AOO from non-ignored foes whenever you are struck for damage by the foe you are ignoring.

Folks seem to halve 2 seperate arguements Vs this maneuver, too powerful or nerfs rogues. Any arguments to the contrary? I like this manuever, but the debate against it seems strong.

Maneuver Foe: as a standard action, you make an attack roll against AC (10 + your foe’s attack bonus). If you hit, your foe must either move 5’ in a direction of your choice or be flat-footed against you for 1 round. If you miss by 5+, you provoke an AOO from that foe.

Another web site generated a response claiming this manuever supercedes bull rush. Does this manuever seem too strong?

Roll with the Blow: sacrifice your next standard action and fall prone in order to reduce damage from a melee attack in ½. You take full damage unless you succeed in a Reflex save against the attacker’s roll to hit roll. On a failed roll, you take full damage, lose your next standard action, and are still prone. As a side effect of this action, whether you succeed or not, you may make a 5’ move out of turn.

Set: as a full round action that provokes an AOO on the round performed & each round maintained, you focus on a single foe’s movements to gain a +1 to hit that foe with a ranged attack on the following round. You maintain this bonus so long as you do not move, fall prone, make an attack against a different target, or Set against a different foe.

The name must be changed - I opt for Targeting. The reason - I do not want it mistaken for the action of setting a spear! It was suggested I make this more powerful, but I thought it about on par. In need of re-wording: This manuever requires a full round action to initiate, though you may maintain it as a free action. When initiated & while maintained, you provoke AOO from adjacent foes.


B:]B
 
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I don't like Ignore Foe because people just can't do that. Even trained soldiers can't do that.

Try fighting in a shield wall with a bunch of trained swordsmen. One of the tricks of shield wall combat is to let the first attackers through and let them get chopped down behind you by the second row in the killing zone between the rows. However, I've seen this happen time and again that the people in the first line, KNOWING that there are more than enough people behind them to handle the guy who got through, spend their time watching front AND back and become ineffective at both. On top of it, if the person behind you -does- hit you with an attack, it becomes IMPOSSIBLE (in my experience) to ignore him, and you are back to square one, being flanked.

If I were to use this, I'd also say that it ends as soon as the ignored foe gets a hit in that deals damage, and flanking then resumes.
 

I don't think Maneuver Foe impinges on Bull Rush. I see them as different ways to accomplish a similar result. Bull Rush relies on strength and physical pushing. Maneuver Foe relies on melee expertise (foot work, riposte, counterattack, sparring) to force a foe to move. The foe can choose not to, but exposes himself to harm in doing so.

I really like this (and wish I had it a session or 2 ago where a gnoll was standing at the end of a narrow pathway over a chasm. My fighter couldn't bull rush him backwards to let the rest of the party into the fight because his strength wasn't high enough. But he might have been able to Maneuver him backwards).
 

Hell Hound: I see where you are coming from. The maneuver is intended to leave you screwed if you use it while facing competent foes - you are easily struck from behind - and if so you are knocking off guard & provoke a series of AOO. The only time you should use it is when one foe seems to be a minimal threat.

Example - responding to a domestic disturbance, the cop moves between the husband and wife, ignoring her and watching the overly tattooed man who smells of alcohol. It is all good and fine until you get stabbed/knocked off balance/grappled by the wife, leaving you open to an attack from the husband. Ain't love grand? You knew the wife was belligerent and was a threat - but you focused (wrongly) on who you thought represented the biggest danger.

Example - A terrier behind me and a chainsaw wielding madman before me - I opt to ignore the terrier entirely and watch the (pretty, chattering) chainsaw. Whoosh. Even if the dog bit me - I'd still ignore it. Now - make that a 120 pound bull dog, I'll be harder pressed to ignore it.

The fear/concentration factor doesn't concern me - the game is ok with a fighter with 1 hp left charging the troll, a lone Gnome grappling Minotaur, etc. Bravery is in the hands of the PCs - no matter how likely the action is to get their heads handed to them.

The shield wall example you gave - I'd imagine some (the die hard, true grit fellows) being able to concentrate on the front, trusting their companions to deal with the fellow behind them. Assuming they really trusted the guys - or drank too much. But as a DM, I'd allow a PC to show this much bravery/moxy w/out a problem.

Do you think the price you pay (easily struck, provoking multiple AOO) is too little for the maneuver? Do you think this level of bravery is too extreme? Are there alternate mechanics you would suggest?

Either way - I appreciate the feedback. Some of these maneuvers may be just too much - and I'm perhaps a bit too close to them to see the imbalance from the trees.

B:]B
 

Beholder Bob said:
Goolpsy: what say you to the alternate penalty I've suggested?

you provoke an AOO from non-ignored foes whenever you are struck for damage by the foe you are ignoring.

That's even stronger than the nerf I suggested, and would probably put it into the realm of workable. Although really it still needs playtesting against some rogues to see what THEY think about the situation.

Especially when used in conjunction with feint as you suggested. Of course, rogues I've played/seen played rarely use feint, due to it's inherent restrictions towards humanoid enemies... but still.
 

Phaedrus said:
I don't think Maneuver Foe impinges on Bull Rush. I see them as different ways to accomplish a similar result. Bull Rush relies on strength and physical pushing. Maneuver Foe relies on melee expertise (foot work, riposte, counterattack, sparring) to force a foe to move. The foe can choose not to, but exposes himself to harm in doing so.

I also don't see Maneuver Foe impinging on Bull Rush. I do, on the other hand, think that a dexterous foe with not so high a BAB should be able to use the dex to oppose the maneuver rather than his BAB if he opts that route.
 

ARandomGod said:
I also don't see Maneuver Foe impinging on Bull Rush. I do, on the other hand, think that a dexterous foe with not so high a BAB should be able to use the dex to oppose the maneuver rather than his BAB if he opts that route.

Hmm - but what is a nice way to impliment it w/out making it more complex?

A fellow with a weapon finesse gets to use his Dex, not his Str in his check to strike his foe to make it happen.

Do you have a suggested mechanic?

B:]B
 

Beholder Bob said:
Ignore Foe: as a free action usable once per round, you can choose to ignore an opponent to focus on another in melee, preventing one foe from gaining flanking against you, but at the cost of treating the ignored foe as being invisible to you. Additionally, ignoring a person inflicting damage on you is difficult when they hurt you - you provoke an AOO from non-ignored foes whenever you are struck for damage by the foe you are ignoring.
what do people think of this modification to ignore foe:
change "you provoke an AOO from non-ignored foes whenever you are struck for damage by the foe you are ignoring." to
the ignored attacker gets an AoO each round they are ignored. If this attack does damage, the defender gets no benefit from the Ignore Foe manuever that round, and the ignored attacker remains "invisible" for the rest of the round.

this way, there's no guarentee to avoid sneak attacks. And using this manuever against a credible threat will result in you being worse off than if you hadn't used the manuever.
 

Changes to Maneuver foe:

Maneuver Foe: as a standard action, you make an attack roll against 10 + foe’s highest attack value (for a melee weapon currently wielded) or 0 + their AC, whichever is higher. If you hit, your foe must either move 5’ in a direction of your choice or be flat-footed against you for 1 round. If you miss by 5+, you provoke an AOO from that foe. Against a target you have just successfully feinted Vs, you gain +4 to your rolls to maneuver them.

B:]B
 

Felnar said:
what do people think of this modification to ignore foe:
change "you provoke an AOO from non-ignored foes whenever you are struck for damage by the foe you are ignoring." to
the ignored attacker gets an AoO each round they are ignored. If this attack does damage, the defender gets no benefit from the Ignore Foe manuever that round, and the ignored attacker remains "invisible" for the rest of the round.

this way, there's no guarentee to avoid sneak attacks. And using this manuever against a credible threat will result in you being worse off than if you hadn't used the manuever.

You know, I like solution even better. It makes it so that you will gain nothing by ignoring a foe that truely needed paying attention to, while not 'overpunishing' you for misjudging an opponent (he only gets on AoO).
 

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