stevelabny
Explorer
I dont think theres a coddling of NEW players. Of course new players should be eased into any new game until they fully understand the rules. I think the problem that lead to these coddling questions is the perceived coddling of ALL players. The lack of PC death.
And I do agree that between Basic Red Box and now, there has been an overall push towards avoiding player deaths. Its impossible to gauge, as we didnt have the internet to trade stories on that long ago, but this is how many people feel.
So heres my question...if there isnt a fear of death, how are the heroics FUN?
The more daring my character is , the more impressive the monster I'm fighting, if there's no real DANGER, I dont see the point.
Even in video games, where you have endless lives... its still an inconvenience to die and have to start over from some previous point.
The feeling of accomplishment is directly related to the difficulty of the challenge.
The game I play in, is run by a DM who very much prevents character death.
He tries to keep track of our characters hit points, so monsters suddenly miss a lot or don't critical or switch opponents for no reason if one of us is about to die.
Whenever I catch him doing this, it breaks my suspension of disbelief in the game.
One night we played a ONE-SESSION game and in the climactic battle I just went all out. Never asked for healing. The barbarian died. The DM was all shocked and asked why I didnt ask for help or say I only had a few hit points left.
I told him it was because THIS character would do no such thing in the middle of a battle.
But even at the end of a one-time-only game, he had problems being responsible for character death.
The game I run, I told the players from the beginning that there would be consquences to actions and I was going to let the dice roll where they may.
They had one or two near death experiences in the first adventure, and then two deaths in the second adventure. One from unlucky dice, and one from tactical stupidity. When the first death happened, they were all surprised that I let it.
(I gave them a few rounds to cross the precarious rope bridge, one character dallied too long, by the time he started to cross, the orcs were chopping it down. He got a balance check, and a reflex save, failed both miserably. A warning and two die rolls to escape death is enough. )
Since then, they've been much more careful. They FEEL the danger, so combat becomes much more exciting. And they know it MIGHT happen at any time, so they are prepared to play a new character, or lose a level if it happens.
Any player that's never seen the consequence side of their actions, or the danger part of their heroics IS missing something.
Every single person here would agree that if a PC is very rude and insulting, and offends the wrong person, he would have to face the consequences and be punished in some way.
So if the PCs always end up in combat, why shouldnt they sometimes lose and/or die?
And I do agree that between Basic Red Box and now, there has been an overall push towards avoiding player deaths. Its impossible to gauge, as we didnt have the internet to trade stories on that long ago, but this is how many people feel.
So heres my question...if there isnt a fear of death, how are the heroics FUN?
The more daring my character is , the more impressive the monster I'm fighting, if there's no real DANGER, I dont see the point.
Even in video games, where you have endless lives... its still an inconvenience to die and have to start over from some previous point.
The feeling of accomplishment is directly related to the difficulty of the challenge.
The game I play in, is run by a DM who very much prevents character death.
He tries to keep track of our characters hit points, so monsters suddenly miss a lot or don't critical or switch opponents for no reason if one of us is about to die.
Whenever I catch him doing this, it breaks my suspension of disbelief in the game.
One night we played a ONE-SESSION game and in the climactic battle I just went all out. Never asked for healing. The barbarian died. The DM was all shocked and asked why I didnt ask for help or say I only had a few hit points left.
I told him it was because THIS character would do no such thing in the middle of a battle.
But even at the end of a one-time-only game, he had problems being responsible for character death.
The game I run, I told the players from the beginning that there would be consquences to actions and I was going to let the dice roll where they may.
They had one or two near death experiences in the first adventure, and then two deaths in the second adventure. One from unlucky dice, and one from tactical stupidity. When the first death happened, they were all surprised that I let it.
(I gave them a few rounds to cross the precarious rope bridge, one character dallied too long, by the time he started to cross, the orcs were chopping it down. He got a balance check, and a reflex save, failed both miserably. A warning and two die rolls to escape death is enough. )
Since then, they've been much more careful. They FEEL the danger, so combat becomes much more exciting. And they know it MIGHT happen at any time, so they are prepared to play a new character, or lose a level if it happens.
Any player that's never seen the consequence side of their actions, or the danger part of their heroics IS missing something.
Every single person here would agree that if a PC is very rude and insulting, and offends the wrong person, he would have to face the consequences and be punished in some way.
So if the PCs always end up in combat, why shouldnt they sometimes lose and/or die?
- mind you this occurred once in many hundred hours of play and the PC was a quasi-deity so I wasn't inclined to fudge the rolls.
