Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Orientalism -- a wide-ranging term originally used to encompass depictions of Middle Eastern, South Asian, and East Asian cultures -- has gradually come to represent a more negative term. Should Dungeons & Dragons, known for two well-received books titled "Oriental Adventures," have another edition dedicated to "Eastern" cultures?

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Orientalism -- a wide-ranging term originally used to encompass depictions of Middle Eastern, South Asian, and East Asian cultures -- has gradually come to represent a more negative term. Should Dungeons & Dragons, known for two well-received books titled "Oriental Adventures," have another edition dedicated to "Eastern" cultures?

[h=3]A Brief History of Orientalism[/h]For a time, orientalism was a term used by art historians and literary scholars to group "Eastern" cultures together. That changed in 1978 with Edward Said's Orientalism, which argued that treatment of these cultures conflated peoples, times, and places into a narrative of incident and adventure in an exotic land.

It's easy to see why this approach might appeal to role-playing games. Orientalism is one lens to view a non-European culture within the game's context. We previously discussed how "othering" can create a mishmash of cultures, and it can apply to orientalism as well. The challenge is in how to portray a culture with nuance, and often one large region isn't enough to do the topic justice. The concept even applies to the idea of the "East" and the "Orient," which turns all of the Asian regions into one mono-culture. Wikipedia explains the term in that context:

The imperial conquest of "non–white" countries was intellectually justified with the fetishization of the Eastern world, which was effected with cultural generalizations that divided the peoples of the world into the artificial, binary-relationship of "The Eastern World and The Western World", the dichotomy which identified, designated, and subordinated the peoples of the Orient as the Other—as the non–European Self.


Game designers -- who were often admitted fans of Asian cultures -- sought to introduce a new kind of fantasy into traditional Western tropes. Viewed through a modern lens, their approach would likely be different today.
[h=3]The "Oriental" Books in D&D[/h]The original Oriental Adventures was published in 1985 by co-creator of D&D Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook and François Marcela-Froideval. It introduced the ninja, kensai, wu-jen, and shukenja as well as new takes on the barbarian and monk. It was also the first supplement to introduce non-weapn proficiencies, the precursor to D&D's skill system. The book was well-received, and was envisioned by Gygax as an opportunity to reinvigorate the line -- ambitions which collapsed when he left the company. The book's hardcover had the following text printed on the back:

…The mysterious and exotic Orient, land of spices and warlords, has at last opened her gates to the West.


Aaron Trammell provides a detailed analysis of how problematic this one line of text is. The sum of his argument:

Although Gary Gygax envisioned a campaign setting that brought a multicultural dimension to Dungeons & Dragons, the reality is that by lumping together Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Philippine, and “Southeast Asian” lore he and co-authors David “Zeb” Cook and Francois Marcela-Froideval actually developed a campaign setting that reinforced western culture’s already racist understanding of the “Orient.”


The next edition would shift the setting from Kara-Tur (which was later sent in the Forgotten Realms) to Rokugan from the Legend of the Five Rings role-playing game.
[h=3]Controversy of the Five Rings[/h]James Wyatt wrote the revised Oriental Adventures for Third Edition D&D, published by Wizards of the Coast in 2001. It was updated to 3.5 in Dragon Magazine #318.

Legend of the Five Rings, a franchise that extends to card games, is itself not immune to controversy. Quintin Smith got enough comments on his review of the Legend of the Five Rings card game that he included an appendix that looked critically at chanting phrases "banzai!" at conventions and some of the game's art:

Now, I have no idea if this is right or wrong, but I do know that chanting in Japanese at an event exclusively attended by white men and women made me feel a tiny bit weird. My usual headcheck for this is “How would I feel if I brought a Japanese-English friend to the event?” and my answer is “Even more weird.” Personally, I found the game’s cover art to be a little more questionable. I think it’s fantastic to have a fantasy world that draws on Asian conventions instead of Western ones. But in a game that almost exclusively depicts Asian men and women, don’t then put white people on the cover! It’s such a lovely piece of art. I just wish she looked a little bit less like a cosplayer.


Perhaps in response to this criticism, Fantasy Flight Games removed the "banzai" chant as a bullet point from its web site. The page also features several pictures of past tournament winners, which provides some context as to who was shouting the chant.
[h=3]Fifth Edition and Diversity[/h]By the time the Fifth Edition of D&D was published, the game's approach to diverse peoples had changed. Indigo Boock on GeekGirlCon explains how:

Diversity is strength. The strongest adventuring party is the most diverse adventuring party. Try thinking about it in terms of classes—you have your healers, fighters, and magic users. Same goes for diversity. Different outlooks on life create more mobility and openness for different situations. Jeremy also explained that it was crucial that the art also reflected diversity, as did Art Director Kate Erwin. With this, they tried to make sure that there was a 50/50 split of people who identify as male and people who identify as female in the illustrations.


Trammell points out how these changes are reflected in the art of the core rule books:

First, there are illustrations: an East Asian warlock, a female samurai, an Arabian princess, an Arab warrior, and a Moor in battle, to name a few. Then, there are mechanics: the Monk persists as a class replete with a spiritual connection to another world via the “ki” mechanic. Scimitars and blowguns are commonly available as weapons, and elephants are available for purchase as mounts for only 200 gold. Although all of these mechanics are presented with an earnest multiculturalist ethic of appreciation, this ethic often surreptitiously produces a problematic and fictitious exotic, Oriental figure. At this point, given the embrace of multiculturalism by the franchise, it seems that the system is designed to embrace the construction of Orientalist fictional worlds where the Orient and Occident mix, mingle, and wage war.


A good first step is to understand the nuances of a region by exploring more than one culture there. Sean "S.M." Hill's "The Journey to..." series is a great place to start, particularly "Romance of the Three Kingdoms."

D&D has come a long way, but it still has some work to do if it plans to reflect the diversity of its modern player base and their cultures...which is why it seems unlikely we'll get another Oriental Adventures title.

Mike "Talien" Tresca is a freelance game columnist, author, communicator, and a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to http://amazon.com. You can follow him at Patreon.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

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Have you been to LevelUp5E.com yet?
Missed this thread until today and when I've got more time tonight I'll parse through the many replies, but as the creator of a 5e eastern fantasy campaign setting I wanted to chime in. When making the book we made sure that 1) we included traditional myth and folklore in a respectful fashion and 2) we had some people living in Japan (an American teacher and his class of students) review the material before it went to print in the event we'd gone astray somewhere (we didn't). Projects like that can and should be done with that kind of oversight in mind. It's really not that hard.
 

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Dire Bare

Legend
Leaving aside all the little rhetorical tricks (e.g. the article is "mealy-mouthed", colonialism is a "trendy buzzword", etc.) and dealing with your actual argument, you raise some very good points, but you leave out some extremely important factors.

For one thing, this is an overly simplistic view of moral universalism. The majority of ethical theories are based on universal equal consideration, NOT universally equal treatment. As a ridiculous example to illustrate the point, I have no right to a mammogram because I am male, nor to hurricane relief because my home state of Michigan doesn’t get hit with hurricanes, etc. Moral universalism would say that IF we were similarly situated, then we deserve equal consideration (the part of the Wikipedia quote you didn’t bold). However, we are not similarly situated, so we do not deserve equal treatment but we are still given equal consideration.

So, the issue here is whether these various cultures and groups of cultures are similarly situated. As Warpiglet pointed out (making a different point, but still accurate here) is that it is about point of origin. From an primarily English-speaking UK/American perspective that these products have been traditionally produced from, no, there are centuries of history as well as a lot of modern events that situated all of these cultures differently with each other.

Sure, centuries of ethics have tried to view humans as these interchangeable rational creatures springing fully formed from the Earth. Thankfully, late 20th century meta-ethics has been trying to rid us of that absurdity. We are embodied and situated with particular histories. If we grew up in China, we would have a vastly different view of Japan. But, at least in the US with our Mickey Rooney-esque treatment of the Japanese, we have a very different relationship to Japan. Our relationship with many African cultures is vastly different than our relationship with many European ones. To pretend otherwise is absurd.

So, yes, moral universalism makes a very good point that when similarly situated, we should treat cultures, etc. in similar ways. But it is not as simplistic as just looking at that other culture's history and completely ignoring the one who is looking. The “similarly situated” needs to take into account how they are situated to each other, as well.

Now, what I said above just pertains to Americans (and to varying degrees the British, for example), but you'd ask aren’t fans of D&D from more than the US?

You betcha! They will have different perspectives on much of this, as well as similar perspectives on other things. Beyond being a “trendy buzzword” colonialism has been extremely harmful in the history of the world, and some of my South American friends will probably have a very different perspective on it than I do in the ol’ US of A. Doesn’t make it less important to take into consideration.

Plus this leads directly to the point made in the article, as well as by myself and other commenters, which isn’t that Oriental Adventures is racist and we should avoid all mentions of East Asian fantasy. That is a straw person that many keep beating up on that no one else is actually defending. What many of us are saying is that going forward, we can do better. Like many others, I loved the OA books. But I also know times change, the demographics of the fans change, and even the original fans themselves mature and change. I would hope how we handle most things matures and changes from how it was handled decades ago.

For one thing rather than relegating “Oriental” adventures to its own separate book – recognize that D&D fans come from a wide variety of backgrounds and have a wide variety of interests, therefore incorporate that material in with everything else (as WotC has been doing to some degree). As the article mentions, having artwork that represents that variety of fans is a great step. Not separating out that content into its own separate book is another. (Don’t even get the AL people started on how that impacts PHB+1!) That is what the author was claiming when they said another OA is unlikely.

Maybe that’s a better way, or maybe it would lead to it getting “blandified” and losing its uniqueness and therefore a separate OA (or even Japanese Adventures, Chinese Adventures, etc.) would be preferred. I don’t know. That would be an interesting topic to consider. Instead we get arguments against the strawperson claims that OA is racist, no one can ever publish East Asian-inspired work, and we can never have any fun. No one is claiming all that, yet many keep trying to argue against it.

This thread has been painful for me to read with the very determined willful ignorance all over the place. But your post was simply beautiful, and has calmed my SJW rage. Thanks for your well-written and well-informed oasis of a post!

Edit: After posting, I noticed the mod post on using terms like "Social Justice Warrior" or SJW . . . I'm using the term (or trying to) in a positive way, and totally wearing that badge. No sarcasm in this post, 100% heartfelt.
 
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Igwilly

First Post
Respectful fashion? Sure, I get that. But that doesn't necessarily means "100% accurate" because limiting us to use only unaltered real-world myth is to... well... limiting.
Honestly, I cannot see how a book like Oriental Adventures is disrespectful, especially when such kinds of works always talk about how they changed some things and it's not meant to directly represent a real-world culture.
However, I must say I actualy like works more accurate than D&D's economy compared to real-world medieval economy.
Which books did you publish? I don't like 5e, but I could check out ^^
But, are you sure you have made no changes to fit into D&D? That seems hard to do.
 

Mercule

Adventurer
Yes. We should have a 5E Oriental Adventures. I don't really care if it's called that, but it should be roughly as accurate to the area to the east and north of the Indian subcontinent (non-inclusive) between the years 800-1400 as the default assumptions of D&D are to the area roughly equating to the broadest expanse of the western Roman Empire was in the same time period (800-1400). Which is to say "not particularly accurate, but cool for stories vaguely influenced by the stories about the stories from there and then".
 

Dire Bare

Legend
To respond to the OP's question, I think I'd be far less interested in an Oriental Adventures setting than, say, Wuxia Adventures. A random hodge-podge of vaguely Pan-Asian elements is far less interesting to me as a player than digging into a different genre of storytelling that alters or upends a lot of the defaults of contemporary high or epic fantasy. This is fairly consistent with my tastes. I'm less interested in standard D&D settings that draw from a bunch of different media with a hollow core than I am in games with a clear thematic and aesthetic focus.

I like this! An approach based on genre rather than arbitrary Western derived cultural regions. A well-done "Wuxia Adventures" would be awesome!
 

Dire Bare

Legend
[MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION], I see that terms like "virtue signalling" (a new one to me) and SJW are not allowed on this forum, but is the same true of terms like "white privilege" and similar?

White privilege is a real thing, and not an offensive term at all when used correctly. The others you mention, not so much.
 


Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Now, I have no idea if this is right or wrong, but I do know that chanting in Japanese at an event exclusively attended by white men and women made me feel a tiny bit weird. My usual headcheck for this is “How would I feel if I brought a Japanese-English friend to the event?” and my answer is “Even more weird.” Personally, I found the game’s cover art to be a little more questionable. I think it’s fantastic to have a fantasy world that draws on Asian conventions instead of Western ones. But in a game that almost exclusively depicts Asian men and women, don’t then put white people on the cover! It’s such a lovely piece of art. I just wish she looked a little bit less like a cosplayer.


This bit is funny. A white guy worrying about how he might feel if he actually had a Japanese friend. Maybe he should tell us what his imaginary Japanese friend might think of white people shouting Banzai?
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
Missed this thread until today and when I've got more time tonight I'll parse through the many replies, but as the creator of a 5e eastern fantasy campaign setting I wanted to chime in. When making the book we made sure that 1) we included traditional myth and folklore in a respectful fashion and 2) we had some people living in Japan (an American teacher and his class of students) review the material before it went to print in the event we'd gone astray somewhere (we didn't). Projects like that can and should be done with that kind of oversight in mind. It's really not that hard.

This must have been terribly burdensome for you to be respectful and get in-culture advice on your material.

If only you could have made up whatever you wanted and told your potential buyers to suck eggs.

/sarcasm

Seriously to good on you.
 

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