Do you allow the Spiked Chain in 3.5 as-is?

[Nifft]

Best use I've heard of (never seen a PC use it):

Halfling + Weapon Finesse + Power Attack

Basically, boost your Str and Dex, but then dump many of your Dex attack bonuses into damage 2-for-1 using Power Attack. Size bonus to-hit, Dex bonus, Weapon Focus -- pump your attack bonus as high as possible, then convert to damage as optimal for whatever AC you're facing. Very flexible, very deadly.

-- N

 

[Particle_Man]

Both my current DM's allow it, though one past one nerfed it slightly. The campaign I run doesn't have it, but that is for theme reasons (it is a King Arthur campaign).

Nifft, your combo is interesting, but you can't dump dex bonus into a power attack -- you can only dump BAB into a power attack. Still, a finessable weapon that one can power attack with and has the ability to attack people at 5' and 10' is nice. Don't try to trip anyone if you are a halfling though.

Rich Green, good feats with the chain? Combat Reflexes - pretty much gives you a free attack even if you are surprised, and then you don't have to switch weapons on your round like you would with a polearm. And Improved Trip (as has been mentioned). Combining combat reflexes with either improved trip or improved disarm can be amusing, if you have the strength to pull it off.

Oh, but watch out for Kytons. They will have you crying for your mommy in no time at all.

 

[kylera]

I house rule a character can stand up from prone, with out provoking an AoO, as a full round action.

 

[spacecrime.com]

I'm wondering...if it's so obviously broken, why isn't everybody using it?

Someone posted something along the lines of "because they value believability and flavor". I think that's correct but a biased way of looking at it.

My guess is that the spiked chain doesn't fit the image of the heroic character. Most fantasy heroes are depicted with swords and bows and maybe the occasional hammer. You don't see a lot of good guys running around with whips and chains -- they're "common" or "villainous" weapons.

It's like a cowboy's white hat. Blades say "good guy", spiked chains generally don't.

cheers,

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

It's like a cowboy's white hat. Blades say "good guy", spiked chains generally don't.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that. What says liberation and freedom more than a slave swinging the chains he was bound with? And why is the Sword & Fist whipmaster an inherently Good PrC, when the primary use of a whip involves subjugation? And if a sword is good, then why did that blackguard just smite me with it?

My point really was more that if it were truly broken, then no one in their right mind would deny themselves the use of it. I could do lots of cool things with a spiked chain, but I could do almost all of them with a heavy flail and do more damage without spending a precious, precious feat on it.
The nicest thing about it is that it threatens a 10' radius around a Medium PC. I don't see how that's a big deal; it negates a giant's reach advantage, but, you know, if he could hit you, you could 5' adjust in with no AoO and hit *him*, too, with a normal weapon!

If I'm tripping you with it, well, you're tripped. However, given the crappy damage die, I'm not doing much damage, and if I'm trying to do damage (i.e. have cranked up Power Attack), I'm not going to be tripping or disarming you, now, am I?

If you are tripped, well, it's not a big deal; either 5' adjust back and stand up (since you're out of his threat range, he can't hit you and trip you...and I don't see anything saying you have to be standing to 5' adjust), or just suck up the prone penalty and lay into him if you're next to him! Or, heck, you can suck up the Trip attack, and he might miss! If you're worried about being tripped, take Prone Attack. Trip *him!* He won't have nearly the bonus, and maybe he'd like a taste of his own medicine?

Yes, you can Weapon Finesse it...but that's another precious, precious feat you have to spend, and then only if you have a high Dex. If I'm trying to do damage, I'd rather have a high Str, and wouldn't worry about Weapon Finesse.

Oh, and I can use it with Two-Weapon Fighting...which is yet another of my precious, precious feats to spend, which makes it harder for me to do the other fun things with the chain.

Yes, it can do all of that...but to be able to do all of that, you have to spend 7-9 feats (EWP: Spiked Chain, Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon Fighting, Imp. TWF, Greater TWF). For a human non-fighter, that's 15th level without considering the Imp. or Grt. TWF feats. That's almost all your feats, and it would be all for a nonhuman. A human fighter can get that all that by 6th level, true, but he needs Power Attack, so that's 8th level, and if I want to be cool, I need Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Whirlwind Attack, that's 12th level...and Weapon Focus and its tree, so I can hit more often and do more damage, so that's 18th level...hey, I'm almost epic now! If I'm spending most of my feats on one thing, I ought to be able to use it and have some fun with it, I'd think.

Why haven't I used it? Never felt like spending all the feats associated with it. However, I do have to say, the idea of twirling a chain around my character's head to beat someone up with it is awfully tempting. Maybe I'll build my next character around one.

Brad

 

[Particle_Man]

You can use TWF with the spiked chain of your size? Is that a house rule?

And there was a specifically non-good master of chains PrClass in Sword and Fist.

But I think the source of it was really in Blood of Heroes, where it was one of the weapons in a gladiator-like sorta-football game.

Anyhow, I don't think the problem is with the Spiked Chain so much as with the standing up provokes Aoo. Kill that and the spiked chain becomes an interesting way to spend one's feats as a fighter, and thus an option for those fighters that want to pour their feats into one weapon.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

You can use TWF with the spiked chain of your size? Is that a house rule?

My bad...I could swear you could pull it in and use it as a double weapon. Maybe that was in 3.0, another chain weapon, or possibly it has something to do with my crack addiction.

Anyhow, I don't think the problem is with the Spiked Chain so much as with the standing up provokes Aoo. Kill that and the spiked chain becomes an interesting way to spend one's feats as a fighter, and thus an option for those fighters that want to pour their feats into one weapon.

Like I say above, getting tripped isn't the end of the world. There are ways around it, like not getting hit, winning the contest, sundering the chain, or just attacking from a prone position.

Brad

 

[FireLance]

Hi,

I've never had a PC in one of my games use it, but now I think I want to equip an NPC with one!

Why is it so good? What feats do you need to give a fighter to get the best use out of it?

Cheers

Richard

Hi Richard,

The only unique advantage of the spiked chain is that it is a reach weapon that also threatens adjacent squares. This is most advantageous for creatures that are size Large or larger, as they can benefit from the extended reach and still always retain the option to make a full attack against adjacent opponents. Since even a Large or larger creature can only make a 5-foot step as a free action, it cannot attack a creature right next to it if it is armed with any other reach weapon unless it changes weapons (a move action unless it has Quick Draw) or moves before attacking (a move action, and provokes an AOO too).

Because it threatens more squares than any other reach weapon, you may get more use out of Combat Reflexes. This is assuming that the opponents you fight provoke more than one AOO per round, of course.

For the same reason, you can potentially attack into more squares when you use Whirlwind Attack, and possibly get more use out of Cleave and Great Cleave.

Apart from that, it is a versatile weapon which works well with several fighter feats:

It can be used with Weapon Finesse, which means that you are less vulnerable to Strength-reducing effects.

It is a two-handed weapon, so you get 2-for-1 on Power Attack.

It is a good weapon to use with Improved Disarm, as it gets a +2 bonus on disarm checks on top of being a two-handed weapon.

It can be used to make trip attacks, and can benefit from Improved Trip.

Like any other reach weapon, you can use it with Spring Attack against an opponent with shorter reach and possibly force him to move through your threatened area every round to counter-attack you.

Because it can be used in so many situations, it makes more sense to pump weapon-specific feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Improved Critical into it.

However, as cignus_pfaccari has pointed out, doing all of the above requires a heavy expenditure of feats and usually requires above-average Intelligence (for Improved Disarm, Improved Trip and Whirlwind Attack), and good Dexterity (for Combat Reflexes and Weapon Finesse) as well as good Strength (for decent damage).

If you are not planning to make use of all these advantages, there is probably a better, non-exotic weapon that you could use.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I play 3.5 and keep the spiked chain as it is. Currently no one in any of the groups I am involved with is even interested in it.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Funny how so many games keep the spiked chian as is but never see them played in-game.