Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about FTL.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, it's still a hack. There could be other forces other than gravity or matter that play into the acceleration. Or maybe there is enough mass in the universe that we can see that accounts for it, but there are aspects of gravity that we just don't know about yet.

What part of the fact that folks *are* looking for modifications to gravity, and that so far none have worked out, did not register on your eyeballs?

It is, however, just something unseen and undetectable that they stuck in to explain something we are observing.

Well, I will grant that you probably don't have the math for part of this - the motion is *EXACTLY* like there's a halo of matter around and through each galaxy we just can't see with telescopes. *EXACTLY*. It is kind of like noticing that the cake is missing, and the dog has icing all over it's snoot. It does not give you a 100% surety, but is certainly a valid path to investigate....

You do realize that this is how science works, right? You take a guess, and you start looking for evidence to figure out if you are correct or not? This is *exactly* how science operates.

 

[Maxperson]

What part of the fact that folks *are* looking for modifications to gravity, and that so far none have worked out, did not register on your eyeballs?

Well, I will grant that you probably don't have the math for part of this - the motion is *EXACTLY* like there's a halo of matter around and through each galaxy we just can't see with telescopes. *EXACTLY*. It is kind of like noticing that the cake is missing, and the dog has icing all over it's snoot. It does not give you a 100% surety, but is certainly a valid path to investigate....

You do realize that this is how science works, right? You take a guess, and you start looking for evidence to figure out if you are correct or not? This is *exactly* how science operates.

I see no real difference between scientists assuming dark matter/energy exists, and then looking for it, and scientists assuming a bunch of negative matter is being created, and then going looking for it. Both seem like hacks that assume things in order to fill a gap that we have. Both are science.

Why do you view one as a hack, and the other not?

 

[Shasarak]

I see no real difference between scientists assuming dark matter/energy exists, and then looking for it, and scientists assuming a bunch of negative matter is being created, and then going looking for it. Both seem like hacks that assume things in order to fill a gap that we have. Both are science.

Why do you view one as a hack, and the other not?

Science that you like is science.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, I've always kinda wondered why astronomers get to create magic forms of matter just to balance their equations. They get a whole lot more leeway than everyone else it seems.

 

[Morrus]

Heh, I've always kinda wondered why astronomers get to create magic forms of matter just to balance their equations. They get a whole lot more leeway than everyone else it seems.

Leeway by whom? For what?

 

[dragoner]

Heh, I've always kinda wondered why astronomers get to create magic forms of matter just to balance their equations. They get a whole lot more leeway than everyone else it seems.

They don't. Math is the language of the unseen universe. Even something that is incorrect adds to the body of knowledge, knowledge that is valuable in and of itself. Everything gets put through the same rigor eventually, and it either stands or falls upon it's own merit. Some fields, such as astrophysics, is going to be more theoretical due to the lack of empirical evidence, that is just the way it is going to be.

 

[Umbran]

Why do you view one as a hack, and the other not?

Oh, that's simple. It isn't the stuff that's the issue. It is the *constant creation of more stuff for eternity* that is the issue.

I mean, really, "there is stuff that doesn't glow really bright, so you don't see it from afar," isn't exactly a strange concept, now is it? There's no infinities or anything - just stuff that we didn't see before.

Meanwhile the other is, "Wait a minute, let me hook up this infinite supply of something from nothing, and *then* the math works out fine!" is a bit hinkey.

 

[Umbran]

Heh, I've always kinda wondered why astronomers get to create magic forms of matter just to balance their equations.

They don't create it. They merely figure out that it is there.

Astrophysicists and high-energy physicists get to do it because they are the ones with the expertise to make educated guesses, and will get to the bottom of it faster than a random Joe on the street.

Anyone who was, a short while ago, noting that "we don't know everything" should not have an issue with the idea that, every once in a while, we do find a new thing!

 

[Maxperson]

Oh, that's simple. It isn't the stuff that's the issue. It is the *constant creation of more stuff for eternity* that is the issue.

I mean, really, "there is stuff that doesn't glow really bright, so you don't see it from afar," isn't exactly a strange concept, now is it? There's no infinities or anything - just stuff that we didn't see before.

Meanwhile the other is, "Wait a minute, let me hook up this infinite supply of something from nothing, and *then* the math works out fine!" is a bit hinkey.

It's not just something "that doesn't glow really bright." It's freaking invisible. We have matter, so it's solid, but it doesn't obstruct light or other emitted energy in any way. It and dark energy make up 95+% of the entire universe and have a direct tangible impact on everything we can see, yet we can't detect them directly at all. The Earth should be impacting with it on a regular basis, but we don't seem to be. It's as magic mushrooms as creating an infinite supply of negative matter.

 

[MoonSong]

Are we including Neanderthals and Denisovans as different species to (modern) humans? I mean are we just looking at survivor bias?

We as a whole have a few Neanderthal genes, specially all gingers and redheads. They were our same species at least.

If we look at pretty much any galaxy, we can see (via doppler shift of light from stars) how fast the stars in it are orbiting the galaxy's center. They are pretty much all orbiting too fast. When you do the math, they are moving too fast in the exact way you'd expect if the galaxy was far heavier than the sum of all mass of all the stars we can see.

In this situation, is it "a hack" to guess that, when it moves as if there's matter you don't see, that there probably *is* some matter we don't see?

And, in case you are thinking this, no, the physics community didn't just say, "Hey, there's dark matter there," and move on. They hypothesized that it is there, and have been looking for exactly what it was ever since. As well as looking at other explanations, like modifications to gravity that still fit what we observe in, say, the movements of planets in our Solar System - but none of those other options have worked out yet. So, we have a leading (and simplest) hypothesis.

That's all "dark matter" is - a leading hypothesis.

Yeah that is about the most curious thing about Gravity, we don't know if it is even a true force instead of some kind of weird effect.

It started to go downhill when people started declaring absolutes around FTL travel. Came across as hostile as in "you're wrong nya nya nya" IMHO.

Sorry about that, I didn't notice I was opening a can of worms. T-T (And really really sorry if I came up as hostile.)

Why do you view one as a hack, and the other not?

mmm, like thermodynamics?

It's not just something "that doesn't glow really bright." It's freaking invisible. We have matter, so it's solid, but it doesn't obstruct light or other emitted energy in any way. It and dark energy make up 95+% of the entire universe and have a direct tangible impact on everything we can see, yet we can't detect them directly at all. The Earth should be impacting with it on a regular basis, but we don't seem to be. It's as magic mushrooms as creating an infinite supply of negative matter.

My pet nonsensical theory is that Dark Matter is what souls are made of. That way what gives us sentience is the same thing keeping the cosmos together. n_n.