Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about FTL.

 

[Aeson]

*popcorn*

 

[Yaarel]

The problem remains: the methods by which they can communicate with us may not be capable of bridging the gap; the technology that can bridge the gap may not yet be perceiveable by us.

Further, you’re assuming they recognize us as being intelligent enough* worth talking to. When was the last time someone discussed Proust with a parrot?





* or safe enough. If they perceive us as a threat, they may take the Greg Bear approach, and simply be quiet in the bandwidths we monitor.

The hypothetical alien species must be of such technological advancement, the human species cannot be a threat to them. And, they must already know about our existence and deeply understand our form of life. This hypothetical species can communicate with humans at the human level, similarly to how we can communicate at the level of cats and dogs − and parrots.



Your line of debate appears to be: perhaps speed-of-light is an insurmountable obstacle. Thus it is IMPOSSIBLE for the humans species to EVER communicate with aliens EVEN IF they hypothetically existed.

At this point, the debate suggests.

Either there is no such thing as aliens (in agreement with my position), or it is impossible to ever observe evidence for the existence of an alien (in agreement with your position).

 

[R_Chance]

*popcorn*

That makes two of us. This could go on forever. Barring first contact

 

[Morrus]

Chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans all descend from the same ancestor.

Only humans became accidentally intelligent.

The evidence is overwhelming. To become an intelligent species is extremely improbable.

It has occurred on 100% of all planets that we know of that contain life. So right now, it’s looking very probable!

 

[Yaarel]

Star Trek is an important artwork within the fantasy genre, in the same fantasy genre as Lord of the Rings.

Vulcans and Klingons are Elves and Orcs.

They are imaginary lifeforms who coexist with the human lifeform in fictitious universes.

In our reallife universe, these imaginary intelligent species are impossible. Because if they existed at all they would be many magnitudes more intelligent than humans.



Because of the acceleration of technology, if and when we humans develop the technology to obviate speed-of-light, by that time, we humans too will be many magnitudes more intelligent than we currently are now.

 

[Aeson]

That makes two of us. This could go on forever. Barring first contact

I find it all fascinating. I admit I don't have the education some of these guys have. It doesn't stop me from wanting to learn more. This conversation is a learning experience. :-D

 

[D1Tremere]

As noted earlier, no, it isn't. Current theory recognizes that we do not know, and does not require it to be finite. Also, current measures of curvature and expansion suggest it is apt to be infinite, as the major way to have it be finite calls for curvature we do not observe.

What is finite is the *visible* universe, but that's merely a lightspeed limitation on what we can image with telescopes, not a limit on the space. Though, as the current expansion goes, we will never see or communicate with anything outside the current visible universe unless FTL travel is involved, for the same lightspeed barrier reasons.

Thank you for the correction. As I said, this isn't my area, and in this case I was definitely wrong.

 

[D1Tremere]

It has occurred on 100% of all planets that we know of that contain life. So right now, it’s looking very probable!

It has occurred on 100% of the planets that we know of which contain life, but that unfortunately makes for a sample size of 1, which isn't very useful for predicting anything. Also, it has only happened here once that we are aware of, and only in a small window of time. We could be an unstable evolutionary track.

One thing that makes the conversation more difficult is the complexity of the definition of intelligence. What is often referred to as one thing has become increasingly a matter of multiple constructs. What we usually seem to be talking about is abstract thought, coupled with impulse control and object permanence. Creatures that can recognize themselves as distinct beings, relate a concept in their mind with real world counterparts, and delay gratification based on such internal processes.

 

[D1Tremere]

All of these species descend from Australopithecus. Whether taxonomy should classify Australopithecus as human is currently a hot topic. But whatever the future consensus, any intelligent species in this particular branch of species happens to also be part of our own ‘human’ family.

We do not know that all of these species originate from Australopithecus. There are a couple of other known contenders in that mix, and there may be others we do not know about yet, but may discover as we advance archaeology further in central Africa.

 

[D1Tremere]

Star Trek is an important artwork within the fantasy genre, in the same fantasy genre as Lord of the Rings.

Vulcans and Klingons are Elves and Orcs.

They are imaginary lifeforms who coexist with the human lifeform in fictitious universes.

In our reallife universe, these imaginary intelligent species are impossible. Because if they existed at all they would be many magnitudes more intelligent than humans.



Because of the acceleration of technology, if and when we humans develop the technology to obviate speed-of-light, by that time, we humans too will be many magnitudes more intelligent than we currently are now.

This greatly depends on how you are defining intelligence.