Do you enforce "the call of nature"?

dreaded_beast

First Post
Whenever I try and create a map of a home, keep, tower, etc., I try to keep it realistic, at least according to my standards of realism.

One thing that always bothered me was where to put the bathrooms, or in otherwords, toilets.

I'm not a big fan of putting outhouses on the map. For some reason, leaving the comfort of home to do my business in a dirty shack doesn't sit well with me. I know, that thinking is not very realistic, but that's just me.

I figure, there might be some magical means of simulating toilets. Possible use of "prestidigitation" magics to get rid of the smell perhaps?

Regarding, outhouses, what happens to all that waste anyway, does it just accumulate and sit there?

As a player, after exploring a castle or someones dwelling, I've always wondered, where is the toilet? There always never seems to be one.

Same thing for bathing areas.
 

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Well, as I understand it, for a long time chamber pots were the way it was done.

As for outhouses, theres two basic ways to deal with them. When the pit starts getting too full, you fill it in, or you empty it out. I presume that historically you do the former if you've got any sense and enough space to put in a new one. Note that inside castles, you generally aren't too free to dig new pits. IIRC, the moat was a common place to put such stuff...
 

Assuming you're talking standard D&D, keep in mind that it isn't necessarily like the middle ages. The don't have technology as we know it, but you don't have to resort to holes in the ground for your campaign. Our toilets really aren't that advanced (just based on standard water pressure, I believe), so something along those lines (though maybe a bit more rudimentary) wouldn't be out of the question. (Though without a widespread sewer/irrigation system, the moat would sure get nasty.)
 

Oh yeah. :)

Sewers are kinda pointless without toilets, and it gives rise to interesting scenarios: how do you defend your sewers, vent shafts, etc. in a magical world? Voidstone is popular for Wizard towers that don't want to risk interlopers.

Public baths (in anti-magic fields) are also popular.

-- N
 


dreaded_beast said:
Regarding, outhouses, what happens to all that waste anyway, does it just accumulate and sit there?

As a player, after exploring a castle or someones dwelling, I've always wondered, where is the toilet? There always never seems to be one.

Same thing for bathing areas.
Look at A Matter of Convenience. Extensively bookmarked and with a glossary, it covers the history of the disposal of bodily functions over the ages.

Some excerpts:

Around 2500-1500 BCE, the Indus Valley civilization appears to have had latrines that hand-flushed into the street drains (Wright, 10). The drain system emptied into a main cesspool that was apparently cleaned out regularly by public workers Colman, 14). The mechanical flush toilet was invented for the first time about 200BCE. The ground floor of the Palace of Knossos in Crete had a latrine with a wooden seat, an earthenware pan, and a reservoir for flushing water (Wright, 7). The water closet was not invented again until Sir John Harington developed a valve toilet in 1598, one of which was installed in the palace of his godmother, Queen Elizabeth I, at Richmond (Wright, 75). The idea was then almost forgotten again for over a century, and water closets remained very rare in England until almost 1800 (Wright, 103-07

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Castles and manor houses were generally equipped with garderobes with stone or wooden seats above a shaft within the pit that had to be cleaned out at intervals (Wright, 49). In medieval cities, garderobes sometimes overhung a street with a central open sewer, although the authorities much preferred the use of pits. A pit of about 80 cubic feet emptied every three months could accommodate the sewage, rubbish, and ashes generated by two households (Pudney, 43). However, privy pits were often either too small for their contents or too infrequently cleaned out. People walking down the street often had their clothes stained by the material flowing out of an adjacent privy--particularly at night when the flow could not be seen (History of Plumbing).

Cesspits were also used for the communal privies provided for the majority of the population without indoor facilities. The contents of these pits were cleaned out at intervals and hauled out of the city (Wright, 52). It took 13 men 5 nights in 1281 to clean the privy at the Newgate Gaol. The "nightmen" or "gong fermors" who performed this task received about three times the prevailing wage for unskilled labor (Pudney, 50). Due to negligence or false economy, sometimes considerable amounts of material were allowed to accumulate in communal or private facilities. It was not unusual for someone to fall through rotten boards in a privy and drown in the pit (Harris, 18-19). The Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I had to be saved from such a fate at Erfurt in 1184. One of his companions, who perished, had been in the habit of swearing, "If I do it not, may I sink in a privy." (Putney, 92-93)

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Chamberpots, as was said before. That and outhouses was how it was done even in advanced Western cities until the first part of last century; such things still exist in other areas today. You fill it up during the night, then a servant (or you) take it to empty out in a pit in the morning. In the poorer districts, you have another place to put it: you dump it out the window into the alley or street. (Some Western cities had a ditch in the middle of the main streets that was an open-air sewer - the further East you went, the cleaner things were).

In the 14th century, it wasn't unusual to put them within a 'closestool', or a toilet-like arrangement with a lid and padded seat. You just lifted the chamberpot out and took it off for disposal.
 

Nifft said:
Sewers are kinda pointless without toilets...

Not at all true. A town could easily decide that the public sewers were to be nice, centralized places for you to empty your slop buckets without hooking them up to each and every house. You just put a sewer-station every couple of blocks, and part of the morning routine becomes a quick trip to empty your home's buckets...

You still wind up with the same defence issues - it isn't as if the pipes leading to individual homes are big enough for humanoids to move through anyway. And the major pipes really ought to empty somewhere outside the city walls. Unless, of course, there's a magical way of dealing with the slops en masse. I'd imagine a Sphere of Annihilation would make a wonderful find for city engineers.... :)
 

Umbran said:
Unless, of course, there's a magical way of dealing with the slops en masse. I'd imagine a Sphere of Annihilation would make a wonderful find for city engineers.... :)
Maybe some kind of ooze could do this as well, in a large central pit it can't get out of. Also would make for a great way to dispose of bodies. Every once in awhile, you flush a large amount of acid into the pit to 'prune back' the ooze, perhaps.

Also remember that dung makes great fertilizer. Carts would also collect 'night soils' to truck out to the farms. (Can't use the urine like that, though; it's too acidic and salty. Which means someone has to, um, sort things out... )
 

Chamberpots, as people have said, are the least conspicious answer.

The castles I saw in Wales had "toilets" that projected out over the castle walls -- one assumes rainfall (usually not a problem in Britain) took care of the rest.

80 cubic feet is a 2x4x10 ft pit; assuming the 10' is depth, it's tough to work in a hole that narrow -- 4x4x10, or even 6x6x10 greatly increases your "storage capacity" and is still a reasonable size hole. My family's camp has a hole that's probably 3x6x6 -- it's been in use for about 20 years now, and isn't "filling up". That's weekend use, however, and skipping a few months in deepest winter.

Most of my dungeons have a cistern on the top level and an otyugh in the bottom. :-)

Cheers
Nell.
 

Where I live there are still people using long drops (out houses) which get buried once full- its not pleasant but it works - and my parents have a cesspit which is cleaned out every three to six months or so.

My Grandparents caravan had a chemical toilet installed - which is something Alchemist could possibly invent. Also remember that animals (dogs, pigs, otyugh) will eat dung and that may be a method.

In one city I created there was a hobgoblin named Pomerande Muckracker who was a Rogue/Druid with an Otyugh cohort who made his living by collecting the cities effluence (night pots and garbage and unwanted corpses) which were dumped into huge shallow ponds and then racked over by his goblin employees (since it was the only job they could get) - just in case anything valuable could be found. The Otyugh ate the sludge and corpses (and the occasional goblin) and the residue was washed out into the neighbouring swamp. The PCs got called in when a valuable talisman they were seeking was found in one of the muck ponds
 

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