Do You Enjoy The Rogues New Role?

[fnwc]

The only difference is that now they aren't useless in combat.

I still think they're on the bottom end of the striker classes, though.

 

[Elphilm]

There's the answer then: party like it's 1974.

Yes!

Except that in practice I still drop the thief in my OD&D games.

 

[arscott]

The trick to playing a skill monkey rogue in 4e is to get into fights less often!

It's not as though the 1e thief was busy picking pockets or deciphering script in the middle of a swordfight.

 

[hong]

I still think they're on the bottom end of the striker classes, though.

? Nobody I've seen has complained about the rogue. The warlock, OTOH....

 

[hong]

The trick to playing a skill monkey rogue in 4e is to get into fights less often!

It's not as though the 1e thief was busy picking pockets or deciphering script in the middle of a swordfight.

Right. This is another topic that's really about the zeitgeist, not the rules.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Oh! You meant drop, not drop. Heh, never mind. I'll just get back to those house rules, I think. . .

 

[Jack99]

I still think they're on the bottom end of the striker classes, though.

You would be incorrect. If we talk theoretical top dps, according to the experts, only the bow ranger eclipses the rogue. The rest of the pack is behind.

Now, for more "normal" builds, it is impossible to say. I mean, what is an average, non-optimized build. I doubt two persons let alone the community could agree on that.

IME, they deal a hell of a lot of damage, constantly.

 

[Kiddo]

I don't see that their role has changed in the slightest, aside from a marked increase in usefulness in a fight.

I entirely disagree with the suggestion that the Rogue is any less of the skill-monkey it once was and I think if anyone is suggesting that the Rogue has forgotten its thief roots, they are overlooking the skill section of the character sheet.

 

[joethelawyer]

I don't play 4e, so can't comment on that game. But with 3.x, we've houseruled away the ability of the thief to backstab during combat. He gets one, and he has to be moving silent/hiding and get surprise to get it. And it can't be in the middle of combat. After that he gets his low HP ass out of there, and maybe plays sniper from a distance.

As for those who say it makes him a useless class if he can't fight--it doesn't the way we play it. We don't have a 15 minute adventuring day. The day lasts until we are all out of hp, spells, and charged items. And I mean totally depleted. Or until the mission is completed. Whichever comes first. That prevents the wizard from stocking up on thief-clone spells because his other spells are needed so much that he would be stupid to try and mimic a thief through spells.

Plus our games are not built around combat. We may go 3 sessions without a sword being swung. A lot of RP and other stuff takes our time. Even when we do adventures, they aren't all fighting. We get xp for stuff other than fighting. Completing the mission isn't always killing the big bad guy at the end.

The thief is still a valuable class in our game. We don't even call him a rogue.

 

[doctorhook]

I don't play 4e, so can't comment on that game. But with 3.x, we've houseruled away the ability of the thief to backstab during combat. He gets one, and he has to be moving silent/hiding and get surprise to get it. And it can't be in the middle of combat. After that he gets his low HP ass out of there, and maybe plays sniper from a distance.

As for those who say it makes him a useless class if he can't fight--it doesn't the way we play it. We don't have a 15 minute adventuring day. The day lasts until we are all out of hp, spells, and charged items. And I mean totally depleted. Or until the mission is completed. Whichever comes first. That prevents the wizard from stocking up on thief-clone spells because his other spells are needed so much that he would be stupid to try and mimic a thief through spells.

Plus our games are not built around combat. We may go 3 sessions without a sword being swung. A lot of RP and other stuff takes our time. Even when we do adventures, they aren't all fighting. We get xp for stuff other than fighting. Completing the mission isn't always killing the big bad guy at the end.

The thief is still a valuable class in our game. We don't even call him a rogue.

I think you might, in fact, be the minority; I suspect most groups are more casual, and do play D&D for the combat. I certainly wish I could get my group to take some interest in doing something other than rolling attacks.