Do you have to make an attack when using Combat Expertise?

[Artoomis]

You may only use Combat Expertise with the Attack or Full Attack action. A charge is a Special Attack.

AR

Correct. Combat Expertise is very specific:

"When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee..."

It is not written as "whenever you make an melee attack," which would include Charge. As written, no Comabt Experrtise with Charge (or Bull Rush, or Disarm, etc., etc.).

 

[Hypersmurf]

You can only use Expertise when you attack. So, your first move isn't "Expertised". If you use Expertise, then moved, you'd still be covered (you'd be covered, in fact, until your attack action on your next round).

Looks right to me.

Note that Expertise (and Fighting Defensively) are described differently to Power Attack.

Power Attack does not have a condition of "Attack Action or Full Attack Action". The only condition is that you must assign your 'Power Attack number' before making any attack rolls for the round.

You can use Power Attack while casting a spell, if you want... it just won't really have any effect (unless you make an AoO before your next action). You can certainly use Power Attack with a Charge. But not Expertise or Fighting Defensively.

-Hyp.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Correct. Combat Expertise is very specific:

"When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee..."

It is not written as "whenever you make an melee attack," which would include Charge. As written, no Comabt Experrtise with Charge (or Bull Rush, or Disarm, etc., etc.).

Err.....disarm is an attack action. Charge isn't, neither is Overrun. I'm not certain about Bull Rush. The SRD says 'as a standard action (an attack) under bull rush. I'd say no since no attack roll is involved, but that's not firm rule-ness, just common sense.

Under the whole expertise and when it applies bit, the old 3.0 faq explicitly said you could say things at the beginning of your action and it applied from there on. I don't see anything changed in the feat that would change that.

What you think of the FAQ is up to you.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Err.....disarm is an attack action. Charge isn't, neither is Overrun. I'm not certain about Bull Rush. The SRD says 'as a standard action (an attack) under bull rush. I'd say no since no attack roll is involved, but that's not firm rule-ness, just common sense.

Bull Rush doesn't use the Attack action; it uses the Bull Rush action, so no Expertise.

Disarm doesn't necessarily use the Attack action, but you can take the Attack action and use it to Disarm, which would allow you to use Expertise. (You could also, for example, use the Charge action to Disarm, which wouldn't allow you to use Expertise.)

Under the whole expertise and when it applies bit, the old 3.0 faq explicitly said you could say things at the beginning of your action and it applied from there on. I don't see anything changed in the feat that would change that.

The feat hasn't changed, but the definition of actions has.

In 3E, a Standard action included movement. The Attack action was either "move your speed and make a single attack" or "make a single attack and move your speed", possibly trading the movement for a MEA. So at the start of your turn, you took the Attack action - which allows you to use Expertise - and the Attack action meant you could move and then attack.

In 3.5, however, a Standard Action does not include movement. In 3.5, if you want to move and then attack, you take a Move Action to move your speed, and then you take the Attack Action to attack - and it's the Attack Action that allows you to use Expertise.

So, in 3.5, no Expertise for the movement portion of the round. It can only kick in when you actually make your attack.

-Hyp.