Moe Ronalds
First Post
Zappo said:The difference being...?
The thief's more honest about it.
Do you make changes with 3e Rogues?
- Thread starter johnsemlak
- Start date
The thief's more honest about it.
Wicht
Hero
When designing rogues, here is another who makes sure to put points into intelligence. Dexterity might still get first pick, but that intelligence score is a very, very, close second.
The 3e rogue is the best incarnation of the class in my opinion.
Also a little tip johnsemlak, if you are creating a thief who will be doing a lot of fighting up close and personal, learn how to use the bluff skill. Potential sneak attacks in almost every round of combat are not to be sneered at.
The 3e rogue is the best incarnation of the class in my opinion.
Also a little tip johnsemlak, if you are creating a thief who will be doing a lot of fighting up close and personal, learn how to use the bluff skill. Potential sneak attacks in almost every round of combat are not to be sneered at.
hammymchamham
First Post
I'm playing a 9th lvl deep gnome rogue right now, and I LOVE HIM. We used a 32 point buy, and I have 2 magic items that give me a +2 to Str and Con. My stats are
STR 16 DEX 20 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 4
(Now, before anyone gets on my case about Charisma, me rogue before him had a 14 Charisma, I don't neglect it, I just didn't put any points this time, because the Charisma based skills didn't make sense to the charecter idea I had with this guy, and deep gnomes get a -4 to CHA. And you better believe I play this guy like a charisma 4. He always says the wrong thing to make people mad, he's very nervous around everyone (even the party that rescued him from a drow city and has been with for 6 months).)
Now, my point is Dex is still an important ability for rogues, and Intellegence is (IMO) next on the list. The other 4 are for how you see the charecter.
STR 16 DEX 20 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 4
(Now, before anyone gets on my case about Charisma, me rogue before him had a 14 Charisma, I don't neglect it, I just didn't put any points this time, because the Charisma based skills didn't make sense to the charecter idea I had with this guy, and deep gnomes get a -4 to CHA. And you better believe I play this guy like a charisma 4. He always says the wrong thing to make people mad, he's very nervous around everyone (even the party that rescued him from a drow city and has been with for 6 months).)
Now, my point is Dex is still an important ability for rogues, and Intellegence is (IMO) next on the list. The other 4 are for how you see the charecter.
drnuncheon
Explorer
After playing rogues, my players alway complain that no other class has enough skill points.
Personally, I love them the way they are. They have become the most flexible class in 3e - they can do almost anything: merchant, burglar, swashbuckler, con-man, sailor, entertainer, or even an 'everyman hero' type...the rogue lets you make your character unique in an of itself, rather than being a unique class that your character is appended to.
I would be very much against changing them back to 'thief', because 'thief' is so damn limiting. Right now you can play a rogue without any of the 'classic' rogue skills and still have an interesting and viable character.
J
Personally, I love them the way they are. They have become the most flexible class in 3e - they can do almost anything: merchant, burglar, swashbuckler, con-man, sailor, entertainer, or even an 'everyman hero' type...the rogue lets you make your character unique in an of itself, rather than being a unique class that your character is appended to.
I would be very much against changing them back to 'thief', because 'thief' is so damn limiting. Right now you can play a rogue without any of the 'classic' rogue skills and still have an interesting and viable character.
J
Personally, I think a rogue does best by spreading his bonuses out over all the abilities.
Str: If you tumble, you need the strength to carry your equipment and still be at a light load.
Dex: Generally one of your top scores. Best way to a reasonable AC, and often gets combined with Finesse to improve your attack with the weapon you usually use. Lots of your skills are Dex based as well.
Con: Helps you survive when you occationally fail your save vs. the fireballs and such. You aren't going to be able to last long in melee, but it would be nice to last longer than the wizard or sorceror.
Int: Gives you a bonus to your core strength: Skill points. Take this pretty high to start, but in general pump other attributes as you level up. You don't get to add skill points for the levels you've already gained when your Int modifier is raised. On the other hand, when the Wizard is done with his Headband of Int+2 (because he got a better one), you should immediately ask for it. The earlier this stat is raised, the more useful it is. Don't forget to take your starting languages, so you can understant that giant who's lips you are trying to read.
Wis: This would be a dump stat, if only it didn't add to your Will save, Spot check, Listen check, and a few other key areas. Still, it is quite often the lowest ability.
Cha: Adds to a number of very important skills (Use Magic Device, Bluff, Diplomacy) that are just plain fun to use.
When using point buy, I generally figure out how high of attributes I would get by pumping all the abilities equally. Then I start moving points around to concentrate on Int, Dex, Con, Cha, Str, Wis.
I generally take tumble, so I figure out what Str score I would need for the equipment I plan to carry and work back from there.
Str: If you tumble, you need the strength to carry your equipment and still be at a light load.
Dex: Generally one of your top scores. Best way to a reasonable AC, and often gets combined with Finesse to improve your attack with the weapon you usually use. Lots of your skills are Dex based as well.
Con: Helps you survive when you occationally fail your save vs. the fireballs and such. You aren't going to be able to last long in melee, but it would be nice to last longer than the wizard or sorceror.
Int: Gives you a bonus to your core strength: Skill points. Take this pretty high to start, but in general pump other attributes as you level up. You don't get to add skill points for the levels you've already gained when your Int modifier is raised. On the other hand, when the Wizard is done with his Headband of Int+2 (because he got a better one), you should immediately ask for it. The earlier this stat is raised, the more useful it is. Don't forget to take your starting languages, so you can understant that giant who's lips you are trying to read.
Wis: This would be a dump stat, if only it didn't add to your Will save, Spot check, Listen check, and a few other key areas. Still, it is quite often the lowest ability.
Cha: Adds to a number of very important skills (Use Magic Device, Bluff, Diplomacy) that are just plain fun to use.
When using point buy, I generally figure out how high of attributes I would get by pumping all the abilities equally. Then I start moving points around to concentrate on Int, Dex, Con, Cha, Str, Wis.
I generally take tumble, so I figure out what Str score I would need for the equipment I plan to carry and work back from there.
Davelozzi
Explorer
We use the 3e rogue as is and I'm pretty happy with it. I also like the name 'rogue' better than 'thief' as covers more of a spectrum. But I will admit that I pretty much always still refer to any traditional-style rogue as 'thief'.
If I could make one change to the class (and possibly to 3e in general) it might be to make more class abilities into class exclusive feats. Just as people often complain that not all rangers need two-weapon fighting, not all types of rogues need sneak attacks. But like I said, overall, I really like the class as is.
If I could make one change to the class (and possibly to 3e in general) it might be to make more class abilities into class exclusive feats. Just as people often complain that not all rangers need two-weapon fighting, not all types of rogues need sneak attacks. But like I said, overall, I really like the class as is.
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Nifft
Penguin Herder
Davelozzi said:
I agree. I think the Sneak Attack mechanism is good, but I'd like the option of switching it out for something else. Evasion, on the other hand, absolutely needs to stay.
-- Nifft
EDIT: Actually, to merge my two posts together, it'd be nice to have some sort of "Political Backstab" mechanism for a high-Charisma Rogue who isn't much interested in melee.
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Ravellion
serves Gnome Master
Another thing that you need at least one level of rogue to do: Finding traps with a DC >20. (though dwarves can find stone traps with the DC >20 even when they don't have a level of rogue)
Besides that, I'll back up the people who say that Sneak Attack is a lot more useful then Backstab, and INT is the 2nd most important stat.
And no, I don't call them thieves anymore, especially because half the rogues I have seen, weren't thieves. Scoundrels perhaps, but not thieves
If people really don't want to play a rogue with SA, but want to be 'politicians', I think they are in the wrong class: They should be experts. They of course, don't make quite as good adventurers, but that makes sense now doesn't it?
Rav
Besides that, I'll back up the people who say that Sneak Attack is a lot more useful then Backstab, and INT is the 2nd most important stat.
And no, I don't call them thieves anymore, especially because half the rogues I have seen, weren't thieves. Scoundrels perhaps, but not thieves
If people really don't want to play a rogue with SA, but want to be 'politicians', I think they are in the wrong class: They should be experts. They of course, don't make quite as good adventurers, but that makes sense now doesn't it?
Rav
