Do you make your good gods worth worshipping?

[Chimera]

The Good Gods are a lot nicer than the Evil Gods. This flows down through the clergy.

For example, the primary Good Human God is an "All-Father" type whose worship forms depend on the sect, which varies by culture. Raise Dead and higher resurrection type magics are readily available, if a bit expensive. He's moral, but not overly so, being primarily a war/security type god. In the current setting (assuming I was running a game at the moment, which I am not), he has two different sects of his worship in the same area. One is very organized, kinda like the Catholic Church without some of the moral baggage and the other is much less centralized, left-overs from a more nomadic cultural period.

The primary Evil Human God is the God of Strength and Fire. His sect in this region is kind of like a Darwinian version of the USSR and the KGB on steroids, without any pretense of being for the masses. They are highly regimented, spying on each other, enforcing order and absolutely dedicated to the ruthless rule of the church in regions where they dominate. There is no Raise Dead for followers of the Strong One. You get one life and if you don't use it right, too bad - it's going to be a harsh afterlife!

Beyond that, it very much depends on the god.

For example, the sect of the Goddess of Peace is extremely home and hearth oriented, pacifistic in outlook, dedicated to making everyday life more pleasant. Raise Dead is available to her Clergy, but there are few who can do it and they generally reserve it for the wealthier and high-profile members of their sect who suffer unfortunate accidents. Adventuring is highly anathema to the sect, so they will NOT raise Adventurers unless that person has done a lot of good for the church and takes a vow of pacifism upon being raised. (Which of course, they will check with the dead one and with the goddess before doing!)

The sects of the God of the Dead are more Funerary Cults than anything else. They're the undertakers, embalmers(sometimes), grave-diggers of the world. Sometimes their sects/cults get more extensive and get more worship, but not always. There is no Raise Dead for his followers, as he is reluctant to relinquish his grip on the dead once they have passed into his realm. For the more evil sects of his worship, there is a small chance that a high level follower may be able to return as an Undead.

Many more, but I think I've given enough examples to make it clear.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

The next time your PC cleric of good loses all his possessions, have his temple scrounge together a donation for him. The next time he and his party are captured and you don't have an escape scenario planned, have his temple ranson him. Free sanctuary if he's being chased by evil monsters. Free holy water (quantities are limited, so act fast). Advice. Etc.

"Yes, there is a constant struggle. The good push for good, the evil push for evil and the really powerful neatrals throw wrenches into all plans. The characters have seen an earthly representation of a god (3rd level, saw a dead companion be accepted into the night sky as a teeny, tiny star) and twice met a semi-mechanical uber creation out to destroy their BBEG to restore balance"

I think that answers sumarize what I wanted to know. In my former group, the Good X Evil conflict was played in a cynical way, almost like in a "Stigmata"( the movie), where all you have was your faith, and you couldn´t even trust your Church´s conmrades(sp?). I really wanted to know if I was the only one thinking that Good churchs and deities should actively help its followers and warriors, specially when the opposing forces, use dirt tricks, or if the "cheaters lose in the end" attitude would be supported, even when the circunstances clearly show that they will win.

 

[S'mon]

Here's an example - in my AD&D deity campaign, when the Good PC deity Thrin was captured by Dispater, his boss/pantheon head Odin coughed up a very large ransom demand to get him back. Whereas the Evil deity PC Mortis ended up being murdered by his own boss/pantheon head the Demon King Graz'zt, when he started to become a perceived threat. I think that demonstrates the difference nicely.

 

[Ibram]

Being evil and going crazy is not a gift from "evil" gods, people worship "evil" gods because they like going crazy or being evil.

those who follow "good" gods do so because they are "good" as well.

The gods IMC give little care to the events of the mortal world, people follow them (good or evil) for the same reasons that people IRL do, becuase they believe... or want to believe.

 

[FireLance]

In my games, I make doing good worthwhile. Worshipping good gods is part of it, but not all of it. As posted in the other thread on Exalted Moral Dilemmas:

I actively encourage characters in my games to perform good and exalted deeds, and so I make sure that the PCs can always accomplish their objectives by being good and heroic. Furthermore, even if being good seems inconvenient or impractical, it results in the "best" outcome. In my games, evil acts ultimately result in poor outcomes, even failure.

Yeah, I'm aware of the reality check - events in the real world don't always work out this way. However, the game world that I'm running plays by my rules, and it's a world where Good is rewarded and Evil is frustrated. Players that clue into the way my world works do well. Others - well, if they don't like it, they can always find another DM more willing to tolerate their evil antics.

 

[Celebrim]

That is a very subtle question and it can be answered in alot of ways.

First, in the sense of being a worthwhile source of aid and support, then yes, the good gods are worth worshiping. Divine intervention is particularly common in my campaign. In fact, I like to tell players that everyone on the planet can reasonably expect the gods to directly intervene in thier lives at least once in a significant and recognizable way. Powerful figures can expect regular intervention, and if you ever get really famous - your patron might just well show up for a chat sometime.

But this works both ways. The evil gods are also a worthwhile source of aid and support, and in the since that they can be persuaded to further your personal ambitions far more easily than the good gods, they are also 'worth' worshiping. They also will divinely intervene on behalf of thier servants, and against the forces of good. So its not at all clear from a pragmatic standpoint which side is more worth serving. The good side tends to be a little more circumspect about giving out aid, but their repayment plan tends to be ALOT less harsh.

So, from a pragmatic standpoint, you might say in my campaign that its a draw. Most NPC's in the world tend to look at it that way, and have no problems worshiping Lado in the morning and Vansansel in the afternoon. "Keep your portfolio broad.", they might say. "Hedge your long term investments with short term gains."

But as a highly religious person in real life, the idea of the worth of worshipping a deity merely being a matter of how much you can get out of it strikes me as a bit shallow. In fact, one of the biggest problems I have with most D&D deities is that none of them offer anything like a really compelling system of beliefs. The Forgotten Realms is the perfect case in point. You have a god of Rangers, a god of Paladins, a god of Thieves, a god of Fighters, a god of Magic Users, and a god of Adventurers in general. I'm only surprised that they don't have a god of clerics. This is conveinent from the standpoint of giving a patron to everyone in the party, but from a theological perspective its just completely unsatisfying. I find myself looking over lists wondering why anyone worships these idiots at all.

I try my best to avoid that. I try to make the deity represent something compelling and meaningful, and to be in thier way an attractive figure which you can see people following devotedly. For example, a god of say foolishness isn't just about making stupid mistakes, he also about forgiveness, humility, not taking yourself too seriously, jovality, recreation and making the most out of life. And even if he was only the god of fools, then he certainly could find more people to relate to him than a god of say Paladins or even Thieves. So in the sense of being compelling figures worthy of admiration by people who share thier outlook on life, yes, I try to do my best to make them worthy of worship.

But there is an even deeper sense than that. No matter how admirable these figures might be, just who do they think they are demanding our worship? After all, they are in a very real sense just big powerful blown up exaggerated versions of ourselves. They are not omniscient. They are not omnipotent. They are not perfect. Sure the best of them may be wise beyond mortal means, and do a better job of living up to thier outlook than we ever could, but they still make mistakes. Just where do they get off bullying people into thier service just because they are bigger and powerful than we are? What gives them the right to expect that we should be all worshipful and appreciative of thier meddling into our daily affairs, watching over us, punishing us, and so forth. What makes these gods so worthy of worship in the first place?

And THAT is a very good question which lots of theologians in my campaign try to give very good answers to - though some of thier books will get you killed if you are caught reading them. Starting up a cult dedicated to the worship of a god of famine and pestilance will get you hanged in most places, but publically saying, "These gods aren't worthy of worship. They scarcely deserve the title." will get you hanged EVERYWHERE in my campaign.

 

[ThirdWizard]

This is actually incorrect. Good clerics are more likely to give away [or give at all or for money and not a nasty deed or information/etc. like an evil cleric would] healing spells.

Evil clerics have to prepare cure spells, and good clerics do not. Spontaneously casting inflict spells is nowhere near as useful, since you'll usually do more damage just attacking anyway.