Do you prefer D20 or To Hit and Save Tables

[tx7321]

Thats true Bill. One thing another poster mentioned I think is very true, your game in 3E is as fast as your slowest (newbie-ist) players, in 1E its as fast as your DM.

This may also be due to my not being as familiar with 3E. Every time I ran a big battle in 3E I was exhausted (in 1E it wasn't/isn't a blip).

 

[DaveyJones]

I recently ran a combat between 18 goblins (including 2 adepts) and 6 PCs. Didn't take very long at all. The only reason 1e might have been faster would have been because goblins were sweepable in 1e, but aren't in 3e (at least not without great cleave).

they also have less than 1 HD. (HD = 1 -1)

so your fighters got free whacks on them. 1 per lvl.

per that obscure rule on the bottom of the combat chart for fighters.

 

[WizarDru]

This may also be due to my not being as familiar with 3E. Every time I ran a big battle in 3E I was exhausted (in 1E it wasn't/isn't a blip).

Quite possibly. I have run a high-level combat with 18th-20th level players involving no less than 150 githyanki, four of which were high level sorcerors, five of which were CR20 undead, six of which were riding on red dragons and two of which were ethereal marauders converted into living transport craft....and that took less than two hours to play out. With minis.

 

[Quasqueton]

AD&D1 combat seemed/s quicker to run than D&D3 because most people house ruled out most of the complications.

Surprise
Initiative
Tracking segments
Weapon vs. AC
Weapon speed factors
Helmet or no helmet
Number of attacks, and when they come in the round
Rate of fire, and when they come in the round
Etc.

It is unfortunate that when people compare combat play times between the editions, they usually compare “house-ruled-down AD&D1” and “full D&D3 [sometimes with supplements]”.

Quasqueton

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Formulas, like we have in d20. It's easier and faster.

 

[Lanefan]

To-hit tables, every time, both as player and DM. Preserve the mystery.

Lanefan

 

[Quasqueton]

To-hit tables, every time, both as player and DM. Preserve the mystery.

I'm just not seeing how tables "preserve the mystery"? Or even why mystery over a core/basic game mechanic is considered a good thing.

For saving throws, the table left no mystery -- the D&D3 mechanics leave the Players in mystery over what they need to roll to save.

Quasqueton

 

[DaveyJones]

For saving throws, the table left no mystery -- the D&D3 mechanics leave the Players in mystery over what they need to roll to save.

the same is true of 1ed too. you have a base save in the table.

but the actual save may vary just like in the DC for the newest editions.

in 1ed this would be in +1, +2, +3, +4 etc... or minus to the save. only the DM would know that.

 

[Aaron L]

I never said they were the same thing. :\ I said Gygax wanted to keep the rules (including combat determination) in the hands of the DM and out of the hands of the players. Why? repeating myself once again, so that the player could focus on immersion and role play.

Immersion and roleplay? Gygax? Have you actually ever read anything Gygax has written about how he ran and played D&D? Immersive roleplaying it wasn't.

 

[tx7321]

Immersion and roleplay? Gygax? Have you actually ever read anything Gygax has written about how he ran and played D&D? Immersive roleplaying it wasn't.

I think you miss-understand me. When I talk about immersion and roleplay, I'm not talking about thespian actors goofing off at the table in some horrific fake Scottish accent. I'm talking about those involved using their imaginations, and feeling like your actually the character (seeing, smelling, tasting, hearing what they do as if you were really there). Gygax does, infact, play that way (and yes, I have read many of his threads). And thats how AD&D is supposed to be played. The only difference I can see, is that Gygax and his friends played controlling multiple PCs and henchmen, while the way we played around here was you only controlled your own PC. But in either case (controlling multiple or only 1PC ) immersion and roleplay are both paramount to the game (using the definitions I gave above).

Anyhow, I was talking about reading the rule books not his personal way of playing, those are 2 different things, right?