I don't think this line of reasoning applies to all methods of play. Some GMs *are* just referees because they don't create adventures: they use modules and/or some system for adventure development (the random dungeon generator in the 1E DMG, frex) and therefore only arbitrate. If a GM runs just, say, Paizo Adventure Paths or Goodman DCCs, then he is in fact just a referee (if he so chooses).
Do you "save" the PCs?
- Status
I don't think this line of reasoning applies to all methods of play. Some GMs *are* just referees because they don't create adventures: they use modules and/or some system for adventure development (the random dungeon generator in the 1E DMG, frex) and therefore only arbitrate. If a GM runs just, say, Paizo Adventure Paths or Goodman DCCs, then he is in fact just a referee (if he so chooses).
Haltherrion
First Post
There are times when a complete party kill is nice. It can certainly remind the players you mean business. But let's be realistic, a complete party kill can end a campaign, something that isn't usually desirable.
Rather than fudge dice, my preferred method is make them pay a price but try to play it out in some manner that may allow some game continuity:
- Dead PCs are always good in a situation like this. They need to feel there are consequences to their actions. Nothing like a dead person to do that.
- Once folks start dropping dead, the remainder will usually reconsider fleeing. In many cases, that might remain an option, especially if the foes stop to loot or are themselves bloodied by now.
- Capture of survivors for food, ransom or what not can be an option, usually with significant loss of gear.
- If the disaster is due to some combination of bad luck and your own mis-calling of the encounter, you generally should go easier on the players. It depends on the type of campaign you are running but usually there is an understanding that the players will be given a fair chance to deal with encounter foes. It might be realistic for a ancient dragon to swoop out of the sky and eat them (if the campaign has those) but is that a fun game?
- If the players are being willfully foolish and just getting themselves into more and more trouble until you have no choice but to kill them, then that is a red-flag that something is wrong with the campaign.
- It could be a grumpy player trying to sabotage the campaign.
- It could be the players really don't like the way you are refereeing and staging a revolt.
- It is probably a combination of the two above. Regardless, you need to consider your campaign and you and your players may need to talk
Unless it's brutally obvious that it's the PCs fault, I go a little easy on them and give them a chance to pull it out. This is mostly because I'm having trouble balancing encounter difficulty, so I'm ratcheting up the difficulty. So if the PCs are in a life-threatening encounter, it's probably because I ratcheted it up a bit too far.
I have had a "TPK" - it wasn't complete, but we stopped the campaign with 2 dead, 3 confused. One sane character grabbed one of the confused ones and escaped. It was in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil and I had gone tired of the campaign.
I usually let characters die without intervention, but check every loophole to see if there is something we had done wrong so the character can just have been passed out.
I might let someone get a you-didn't-die-card if it just messes up everything and your character might get a scar or something like that. When I think of it I have generally talked it over with the player of the character before saying that the character is dead. That way the player doesn't feel powerless in the situation.
I usually let characters die without intervention, but check every loophole to see if there is something we had done wrong so the character can just have been passed out.
I might let someone get a you-didn't-die-card if it just messes up everything and your character might get a scar or something like that. When I think of it I have generally talked it over with the player of the character before saying that the character is dead. That way the player doesn't feel powerless in the situation.
So your GM doesn't happen to put together the monsters, and put them in the locations? Your players do that too?
I don't actually know how Ariosto plays, but it isn't a huge leap to say that the GM for his group does not in fact do any of that, and neither do the players. Many groups use modules exclusively, in which case the GM doesn't "create" any adventures and is in fact a referee in the contest between the PCs and the adventure.
What I don't understand is why this is so difficult for people to believe.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
If they are too stupid or too proud to run away, they die. I have played characters who were honor bound to never flee, and thus, died. If it's a role playing decision to stay, fight and die, I'm happy that my character died that way, rather than run away, and live with his honor besmirched. If I stay and fight and the fight is fixed, it lessens me. My heroic stand was nothing.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
When I GM, yes, I put the monsters in certain locations, but the PLAYERS are the ones who decide to go there. If they decide to take on the Steading of the hill giant chief at 1st level, and get tpked, how is that the gm's fault?
It isn't, assuming that the players and their characters know what awaits them. Failing that, there should be a lot of clues to tell them to turn back before their first TPK-gauranteed encounter.
- Status
Similar Threads
