D&D 5E (2014) Do You Start At Level 1?

[Frozen_Heart]

I prefer starting at level 1 when possible, though our group will often start at level 3 or level 5.

Honestly I'd prefer to start at level 0 if it existed, as I prefer the 'zero to hero' trope. While modern DnD typically starts you at minor superhero power levels.

 

[AlViking]

I prefer starting at level 1 when possible, though our group will often start at level 3 or level 5.

Honestly I'd prefer to start at level 0 if it existed, as I prefer the 'zero to hero' trope. While modern DnD typically starts you at minor superhero power levels.

I've played around with a few variations of 0 level before - nothing official and I keep trying different things but it can be fun. My 4e campaign from long ago had everyone starting around age 10. My 5e game had them starting with at most a +1 to ability score adjustment and being able to cast some cantrip for casters as a ritual because they had shown some aptitude but were just starting school. It took a few sessions to get to level 1.

We had fun and it really focused the game on RP and establishing character.

 

[Reynard]

I've played around with a few variations of 0 level before - nothing official and I keep trying different things but it can be fun. My 4e campaign from long ago had everyone starting around age 10. My 5e game had them starting with at most a +1 to ability score adjustment and being able to cast some cantrip for casters as a ritual because they had shown some aptitude but were just starting school. It took a few sessions to get to level 1.

We had fun and it really focused the game on RP and establishing character.

It seems to me that you can start 0 level 5 characters with just their species and background, with 5 hp and their proficiency bonus. Then when they hit 1st, they get their class and whatever HP that brings.

 

[Maxperson]

Broaden your scope of focus. Instead of looking at your character as a collection of push button abilities try thinking about them as part of an an organically functioning party of adventures that is itself an evolving part of the world. Many elements of 5e design encourage players to view their PC as the freaking Mary Sue level Star Main Character Chosen One who happens to have a Scooby gang they are accept being near


Once you do that it becomes easy to see how things like backstory go from not particularly important fanfiction about the character you wish you had to a more important thing like "why did I turn away from my cushy life to be an adventurer risking life and limb. w
What was it before & who might my character know that I as player don't".

As to knowing your character such... That character exists as part of a group and it takes time for things like group dynamics to gel together just as it takes time for that group to find it's place in the world. Past editions recognized that better and provided more room for relevant growth accommodating choices than 5e as PCs advanced

You can't do that during character creation because your character isn't yet part of the world and the party can't exist yet as a whole beyond a conceptual bootstrap paradox

Nothing you just said requires levels 1 and 2. And nothing I said looked at the character as push button. The opposite in fact. What I said was that levels 1 and 2 are just a mental construct folks are using to justify lots of things that can just as easily happen at levels 3 and 4.

"Why did I turn away from my cushy life to be an adventurer and risk life and limb?" can be answered at level 3 as easily as level 1. "What was it before & who might my character know that I as a player don't" can be answered as easily at level 3 as level 1. We can spend as much time getting group dynamics to gel together at level 3 as level 1. It's not like starting with a subclass hinders that at all.

A more lethal start is just about the only thing you get at level 1 that you don't get at level 3, and even very much reduced in 5e when compared to 1e-3e. The 5e design makes even level 1 characters far more resilient than they used to be.

 

[cranberry]

Always start at 1st level. Why? Because, the tier 1 is actually challenging, death of PCs are a real possibility, and is the only part of 5E that feels somewhat like 1E.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't know about "people" but I wasn't speaking about mechanics at all. I was speaking about knowing who my character is, what they think, what they want, where they thrive, what makes them sad. And knowing all that will have a tremendous importance for their further development.

That can be done at level 3 every bit as easily as level 1. All the time it takes to learn those things as you go from level 1 to level 3 can be done when you start at level 3. The character growth decisions you make as you learn your character don't hinge on character level.

 

[kigmatzomat]

{deity} no. We start at 1st level once, maybe twice, each edition.

After that its usually 5th, 9th, or 11th. Part of that is that we have a "20 year veteran soldier" as equivalent to 4th level fighter. This is our threshold for "stops a goblin horde with numerical advantage", yours may vary.

Which gets to the crux, where any adventure the locals need outside help, but have access to veteran troops, means the PCs need to be 5th+ to be a reasonable choice. "Ooooh, fireball! None of our wizards can cast fireball! Surely you can defeat the dread beast!"

We also have "prologue" sessions for higher level games. Build the PC at 5th, run one short adventure with a boss battle. Level to 7th, repeat. Level to 8th, repeat. Congratulations, you're freshly 9th level, have established some group tactics, have had a chance to settle into the character, set up some NPCs and established a feel for the setting. Its 4-5 sessions and well worth it.

This does mean that if PCs visit the "border town settled by military veterans" that anyone described as "grizzled" can go toe to toe with a 4th level PC. The grizzled librarian can't cast Fireball but he's got a few AoE spells and might be able to Jedi Mind-trick the PCs and the grizzled priest can materialize {deity}'s displeasure in weapon form along with radiant blasts. Which is why its a border town, so any neighbors know they have to fight past a town full of violence if they want to invade.

It also applies to any elf who looks old enough to drink as well. Starting a barfight in the elven lands is a Bad Idea, as in our worlds the vast majority of NPC elves spent their 13th and 14th decades in the army learning how to survive to their 60th decade. 20 years isn't a big deal to an elf. Those 1st level PC elves are either in their 10th-12th decade, weren't raised in elven lands, or somehow avoided the cultural norms.

 

[tetrasodium]

Nothing you just said requires levels 1 and 2. And nothing I said looked at the character as push button. The opposite in fact. What I said was that levels 1 and 2 are just a mental construct folks are using to justify lots of things that can just as easily happen at levels 3 and 4.

"Why did I turn away from my cushy life to be an adventurer and risk life and limb?" can be answered at level 3 as easily as level 1. "What was it before & who might my character know that I as a player don't" can be answered as easily at level 3 as level 1. We can spend as much time getting group dynamics to gel together at level 3 as level 1. It's not like starting with a subclass hinders that at all.

A more lethal start is just about the only thing you get at level 1 that you don't get at level 3, and even very much reduced in 5e when compared to 1e-3e. The 5e design makes even level 1 characters far more resilient than they used to be.

Your character is the particle song & necklace but the sessions at the table and campaign are not.
You have such a narrow tunneled view or this whole starting at 1st then ng that you can't even acknowledge the paradox you are insisting doesn't occur when starting above 1st level

The kinds of adventures that are level appropriate matter. Furthermore, you missed the point in your tunnel vision efforts to insist that higher level PC's are no different in that early growth phase. having a full suite of abilities already locked on means that the early growth is already complete and can not occur in play

 

[TwoSix]

Nothing you just said requires levels 1 and 2. And nothing I said looked at the character as push button. The opposite in fact. What I said was that levels 1 and 2 are just a mental construct folks are using to justify lots of things that can just as easily happen at levels 3 and 4.

"Why did I turn away from my cushy life to be an adventurer and risk life and limb?" can be answered at level 3 as easily as level 1. "What was it before & who might my character know that I as a player don't" can be answered as easily at level 3 as level 1. We can spend as much time getting group dynamics to gel together at level 3 as level 1. It's not like starting with a subclass hinders that at all.

A more lethal start is just about the only thing you get at level 1 that you don't get at level 3, and even very much reduced in 5e when compared to 1e-3e. The 5e design makes even level 1 characters far more resilient than they used to be.

Yea, I agree with this. It’s trivial to narrate level 1 and 2 abilities as part of a character’s training backstory, just like the features they get from race and background. You would only use a level 1 or 2 character to model someone young who’s still learning the basics.

 

[Maxperson]

Your character is the particle song & necklace but the sessions at the table and campaign are not.
You have such a narrow tunneled view or this whole starting at 1st then ng that you can't even acknowledge the paradox you are insisting doesn't occur when starting above 1st level

The kinds of adventures that are level appropriate matter. Furthermore, you missed the point in your tunnel vision efforts to insist that higher level PC's are no different in that early growth phase. having a full suite of abilities already locked on means that the early growth is already complete and can not occur in play

There is no paradox going on at all.

Sure, you might miss out on fighting giant rats or a swarm of bees or something, but that's not character growth.

As for "suites" of abilities, starting with 3-4 more minor abilities is........................level 1!!! Level 3 is level 1. The designers have said this. They broke up level 1 and spread it out over 3 levels, because apparently their opinion of how much a beginner can handle is very, very low. There is no "suite" of abilities you get at level 3 that you don't have at level 1.

You're also looking at this with tunnel vision. There's no character growth that can happen from level 1 to level 3, that can't happen from level 3 to level 5. The only thing you're really missing out on is playing level 1 for 3 levels.