Synicism said:
This I envy with a burning fire.
My former teacher (and his partner-wife) weren't open to such things. I still recall with amusement the anger in her eyes when she instructed the class to do punches the length of the room and back, and I asked "Do you want us to do them for form, or effectiveness?", she claimed there was no difference (like a punch thrown with the emphasis on the niceties of form could be as effective as a punch thrown because you know how to hit someone, and block, and move, all at the same time) -- so I showed her the difference.She never did answer that question. When I can get back into a school, I'm really hoping the teacher will be more like yours.
EDIT: Decided that discretion is the better part of valor(well maybe not the BETTER part, but definitely the one IM choosing today, since as people have pointed out to me, and not just on these boards but IRL too) discretion wasn't exactly within my mind last night(although I still hold that if he HAD been intent on kicking everyone who watched his little demo in the teeth then maybe it's a good thing that he tried to start it off by kicking me in mine) so to avoid any further comments this might draw, I'm withdrawing the post.
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Wolvorine said:
Oddly enough, I've discovered that Master Shin (my instructor) is usually dead on when I question him about whether the "proper" form is also the most effective.
Generally, it turns out that I am doing them wrong. Go fig. <g>
I have never seen someone old enough to be my grandfather hip-toss me *that* fast in my life. Fortunately, he was cool and showed me how to do it too.
I love how Hapkido and TKD mesh together and I wish I had picked up the locks and throws sooner than I have. I have heard that Hapkido emphasizes fighting with a cane as well, but I don't think Master Shin teaches weapons (although his gym is chock full of every manner of sharp, pointy, or bashing object you can think of).
ranix65 said:
Um, it takes two to tango.
You say that you aren't into the violent aspect, and that you are good with the spiritual aspects. Your actions, however, speak otherwise. You went in and behaved in a disrespectful, confrontational manner. You specifically state that you "invited him to try his luck". In other words, you went in and asked for a fight.
Sorry, but that's really, really uncool.
Wolvorine said:
This I envy with a burning fire.
She never did answer that question. When I can get back into a school, I'm really hoping the teacher will be more like yours.
Well, it sounds like you asked in a confrontational way. Perhaps you didn't, but from your description, it sounds like you came in determined to prove that you were smarter than the instructor -- which sort of defeats the purpose of having an instructor at all.
As for the question itself, I can see both sides. Sometimes you want to get students hitting as hard as they can, working up a sweat, while other times you want them to focus on wrist position.
However, at a certain belt level, there is no difference. The niceties of the form are there to help you hit harder.
-Tacky
Edit: Ditto Umbran. The "master" sounds like an idiot, but that's not the way I would have done it.
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Well then SCREW YOU! No, just joking, don't take it seriously, that is a decent illustration of what Ian's own reaction to any criticism was. And that WAS what I originally showed up to do(although it might not seem like it to some, what with having both gf and best-friend in tow, we're all just almost always together). It really sux that it can't be seen in perspective, to type out how this is in perspective all that led up to last night it'd probably take me like 2 pages, including the fact that:
1. I take my martial arts very seriously. I've tried to talk to Ian before last night, and each time he blew me off, mouthed off at me, and walked away with his bunch of lackeys(yes, the Basterd[sic] has lackeys; ya know, those yes men that fawn all over people that make a big deal out of themselves and ride on their coat-tails?); I knew that last night he wouldn't be able to walk away from me, so I sat dead center on his mat, and to be perfectly precise, I never said, "Well come on try your luck", all I sadi to him after he went into his schpiel about how "he's gonna teach this martial arts style to anybody who's interested(and has money to pay him as well) and I'm doing a demo", all I said was, as I said in my last post, "show me". He took that as an invite to try to kick my teeth in, all I was saying by stating that I kinda invited him to try his luck is that I was an easy sitting target who asked him to show me what he's gonna show everybody else. It can be inferred then(although incorrectly...i hope)that his plan for the demo was to kick anybody watching it in the teeth.
What did Ian show everybody else? That he's a jackarse. That was all I'd been trying to tell him for days, and even when I had him with his back to the wall(a bad analogy, but the only one I can think of)(he couldn't walk away from his own demo, after all) he still couldn't behave in a civilized manner. I forget the exact saying, but my cousin from New York City once told me "If ya wanna play stickball in Canarsy, learn Brooklyn Rules, otherwise your not playing the same game"; guess what, Ian's apparently never even been in the vicinity of my Brooklyn, whose rules are as follows(these aren't even specific to me, these seem like they apply to just about anybody!):
Listen the first time somebody says something, and definitely don't just blow em off and call em names.
Don't throw a fit and try to cause permanent damage to someone else just because.
Sorry if I didn't make it clear in my last post, but there were other words exchanged between me and Ian last night, most of mine fairly calm(including the oft-repeated no), most of his hateful, vulgar, and pissed off.
1. I take my martial arts very seriously. I've tried to talk to Ian before last night, and each time he blew me off, mouthed off at me, and walked away with his bunch of lackeys(yes, the Basterd[sic] has lackeys; ya know, those yes men that fawn all over people that make a big deal out of themselves and ride on their coat-tails?); I knew that last night he wouldn't be able to walk away from me, so I sat dead center on his mat, and to be perfectly precise, I never said, "Well come on try your luck", all I sadi to him after he went into his schpiel about how "he's gonna teach this martial arts style to anybody who's interested(and has money to pay him as well) and I'm doing a demo", all I said was, as I said in my last post, "show me". He took that as an invite to try to kick my teeth in, all I was saying by stating that I kinda invited him to try his luck is that I was an easy sitting target who asked him to show me what he's gonna show everybody else. It can be inferred then(although incorrectly...i hope)that his plan for the demo was to kick anybody watching it in the teeth.
What did Ian show everybody else? That he's a jackarse. That was all I'd been trying to tell him for days, and even when I had him with his back to the wall(a bad analogy, but the only one I can think of)(he couldn't walk away from his own demo, after all) he still couldn't behave in a civilized manner. I forget the exact saying, but my cousin from New York City once told me "If ya wanna play stickball in Canarsy, learn Brooklyn Rules, otherwise your not playing the same game"; guess what, Ian's apparently never even been in the vicinity of my Brooklyn, whose rules are as follows(these aren't even specific to me, these seem like they apply to just about anybody!):
Listen the first time somebody says something, and definitely don't just blow em off and call em names.
Don't throw a fit and try to cause permanent damage to someone else just because.
Sorry if I didn't make it clear in my last post, but there were other words exchanged between me and Ian last night, most of mine fairly calm(including the oft-repeated no), most of his hateful, vulgar, and pissed off.
Jeremy
Explorer
cardinal sinister said:
And in such a situation, preconceptions will get you killed or hospitalized.
I took TKD pre-high school, got bullied around in high school, and found that fear and others not playing by your rules can quickly add up to your sparring meaning very little.
That's why I really like the drilling and muscle memory aspects of San Soo. I want to know that if a situation occurs that endangers myself, my wife, or my child, at least my body will remember what to do until the adrenaline kicks in.
Is it just me, or does San Soo attract a whole gamut of people. We've got 45+ mothers, young teens, armed forces vets, and everything in between in our class for every imaginable reason.
We've got the token group of 3 early twenties guys with one leader and two cronies who enjoy going to bars and sporting events and shooting their mouths off to see if they can attract trouble. Y'know, the ones who come back week after week talking about the 11 on 4 they got into that was over after a couple of eye gouges, knee breaks, and groin shots in 7 seconds when everyone decided running before the cops showed up was a good idea.
But we've also got the 20 something guys who are in here trying to fight the battle of the bulge (weight gain to those of you who don't have to deal with it yet), the young teens who are just looking for some confidence, the mothers who tell themselves its for self defense but really come because they like the people, young girls who enjoy the flexibility and excerise more than hours in the gym, and the men who come because they want to be deadly...
I'm one of the people trying to slim down if it matters.
And if I can get some weapons training to look really good in the mirror while working out with the staff, sword, or double sticks then I'll be very happy.
But after seeing what happens when it's on blacktop and the guy really wants you beaten on the floor bloody, he's got 4 friends, and he's not interested in staying at a distance trading blows, I'll opt for foot speed and avoiding of confrontation for now.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
ranix65:
I sympathize with your desire to teach this Ian character a lesson, and indeed it is very frustrating to listen to cheeseheads blather on about how great they are when you know they're full of it.
I still consider your actions very ill-advised. Both the confrontation with Ian and your manner of reporting it.
First of all, I don't think it's your place to show Ian up. Let him teach his crappy forms and announce his ridiculous history. Why shouldn't he? If he really is as stupid and useless as you say, his students will abandon him and his reputation will collapse. And whether or not it does, why do you care? So some easily-misled people will learn bad martial arts. Do you want easily-misled students at YOUR dojo? Then why begrudge him his?
I don't think that "teaching someone a lesson" is anything to be proud of. What lesson do you think Ian learned? That he is a worthless thing not deserving of any respect, fit only to be beaten upon until he surrenders? You know what -- if he was behaving as you describe then deep down he already knew that. He was just covering up his own insecurities. Beating him senseless isn't going to help him any -- so why bother?
What do you think his other students who were there might have learned? That Ranix65 is a tough hombre? If they were the slightest bit perceptive they would know that the second they looked at you, right, so again, why bother?
Second of all, I wonder why you are posting this story here. It comes across as boastful and macho, neither of which are qualities I think one should be proud of. Your actions, I'm sorry to say, seem self-serving. I would be more impressed to hear of how you overcame your violent nature than of how you kicked the snot out of some poor insecure fellow who never had a chance.
I sympathize with your desire to teach this Ian character a lesson, and indeed it is very frustrating to listen to cheeseheads blather on about how great they are when you know they're full of it.
I still consider your actions very ill-advised. Both the confrontation with Ian and your manner of reporting it.
First of all, I don't think it's your place to show Ian up. Let him teach his crappy forms and announce his ridiculous history. Why shouldn't he? If he really is as stupid and useless as you say, his students will abandon him and his reputation will collapse. And whether or not it does, why do you care? So some easily-misled people will learn bad martial arts. Do you want easily-misled students at YOUR dojo? Then why begrudge him his?
I don't think that "teaching someone a lesson" is anything to be proud of. What lesson do you think Ian learned? That he is a worthless thing not deserving of any respect, fit only to be beaten upon until he surrenders? You know what -- if he was behaving as you describe then deep down he already knew that. He was just covering up his own insecurities. Beating him senseless isn't going to help him any -- so why bother?
What do you think his other students who were there might have learned? That Ranix65 is a tough hombre? If they were the slightest bit perceptive they would know that the second they looked at you, right, so again, why bother?
Second of all, I wonder why you are posting this story here. It comes across as boastful and macho, neither of which are qualities I think one should be proud of. Your actions, I'm sorry to say, seem self-serving. I would be more impressed to hear of how you overcame your violent nature than of how you kicked the snot out of some poor insecure fellow who never had a chance.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Quite. Foot speed will save you from trouble more times than anything else.Jeremy said:
Skoyles Sensei would show us moves to handle an attack and for every one he would indicate at which point you could safely turn and run. It always amused me to see a grown man in a hakama booting it the length of the hall...
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