ThomasBJJ said:
Ah, but there's a difference between needing to test your abilities and needing to prove something. One can test one's abilities without taking part in a tawdry public spectacle centered around a cash prize.
Don't let the name fool you. Martial arts, in their fullness, are about much more than just combat. The focus on combat is one means to many ends. In fact some arts (like some schools of Tai Chi) de-emphasize or even eliminate the focus on actual combat.
Dr Midnight
Explorer
Took Karate for years as a kid. Took Jukido for years more.
You know what? I think I actually learned more about fighting from kung fu movies and wrestling friends on a floating dock in a lake.
You know what? I think I actually learned more about fighting from kung fu movies and wrestling friends on a floating dock in a lake.
LGodamus
First Post
Well I started in shorin ryu for about six months as a kid...But I didnt like karate. Later I hooked up with a BJJ outfit and stuck with it for about two years, while simultaneously studying muay thai kickboxing, which i stuck with about 3 1/2 years. Anyway I gave all that up when I met my current sensei, about 4 years ago.He Teaches Bujinkan Ninpo, the only authentic form of ninjutsu still around in modern times. He learned in the United States Army special forces from sensei Brandon Sommerfield. You guys may know him as the guy who rewrote the army's hand to hand combat manual.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
I started out in an odd little Aikido dojo in Calgary where Skoyles Sensei taught iai, kenjutsu and jojutsu. After three years there I went to Japan and studied under Sugino Sensei for three years, learning Katori Shinto Ryu ken, bo, naginata, yari, wakizashi and shuriken. Mostly just the sword, really only dabbled in the others -- three years not being enough time for more.
Came back to Canada as my wife and I were interested in film-making -- that was five years ago and we're sending a short off to a festival for our first time. I've poked my head into half-a-dozen schools around Vancouver but haven't found anything that really turned my crank so every now and then I stumble out to a nearby park and freak out the neighbors with my sword.
An observation of mine, maybe tragically flawed, but what do you think: You can tell a lot about a person from the way they talk about their teachers. What's REALLY important in any martial art is WHO taught you. Not out of snobbery or one-up-manship but because it tells everyone the tradition in which you were trained, the history that has come down to your study. It also shows respect for those who made you what you are and that, too, says a lot about a person.
But the names of styles and forms are very misleading, I think. Yeah, sure, Sugino Sensei taught Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, the oldest swordsmanship ryuha in Japan. So they say. What exactly that means is not at all clear to me. Forms change, weapons change, needs and tactics change. What IS clear, what really matters to me, is that Sugino Sensei was a man of wisdom and compassion who gave no less than everything he had to his students. If I can be half the man he was, I'll be pretty happy with what I've accomplished in my life.
This is why "Which style is better" arguments are so facile. What matters is the teacher, not the style.
Came back to Canada as my wife and I were interested in film-making -- that was five years ago and we're sending a short off to a festival for our first time. I've poked my head into half-a-dozen schools around Vancouver but haven't found anything that really turned my crank so every now and then I stumble out to a nearby park and freak out the neighbors with my sword.
Who's your sensei? Which ryuha did he study? It sounds like he's picked and chosen from variety of schools which is a great way to learn -- IF he's a good teacher. Skoyles Sensei was very much the same way and the great thing is that you get a sampling of all sorts of things and can sort out what direction you really want to go in.
Very cool stuff. Is this SCA or more of the ARMA stuff? Or something else? I love watching this stuff done right. I have no idea what's going on, but it's so cool.
What's Bushido? I mean, besides the "code of the samurai"? Who was your sensei and what traditions did he come from?
An observation of mine, maybe tragically flawed, but what do you think: You can tell a lot about a person from the way they talk about their teachers. What's REALLY important in any martial art is WHO taught you. Not out of snobbery or one-up-manship but because it tells everyone the tradition in which you were trained, the history that has come down to your study. It also shows respect for those who made you what you are and that, too, says a lot about a person.
But the names of styles and forms are very misleading, I think. Yeah, sure, Sugino Sensei taught Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, the oldest swordsmanship ryuha in Japan. So they say. What exactly that means is not at all clear to me. Forms change, weapons change, needs and tactics change. What IS clear, what really matters to me, is that Sugino Sensei was a man of wisdom and compassion who gave no less than everything he had to his students. If I can be half the man he was, I'll be pretty happy with what I've accomplished in my life.
This is why "Which style is better" arguments are so facile. What matters is the teacher, not the style.
Magic Rub
First Post
I'm currently a first degree black belt in Taekwon Do (ITF). Unfortunatly I'm down with a broken leg right now 
(2 more weeks & I'm back!) I landed (very) poorly on a 10ft. flying sidekick board break. I got tangled up in one of the board holders legs, & SNAP!
A real fluke luck kind thing. It was a minor injury as far as broken legs go, but more then enough to stop my training for 6 weeks. FYI, yes I did break the board 
. (stupid chuncka' wood I got you good didn't I 
)
(2 more weeks & I'm back!) I landed (very) poorly on a 10ft. flying sidekick board break. I got tangled up in one of the board holders legs, & SNAP! A real fluke luck kind thing. It was a minor injury as far as broken legs go, but more then enough to stop my training for 6 weeks. FYI, yes I did break the board . (stupid chuncka' wood I got you good didn't I )Have taken a derivation of Ed Parker's American Kenpo for the past eleven years. I'm a fifth degree black belt, although that doesn't really mean much unless you're at my school and can verify that they don't just hand those out in exchange for cash. There are two of us fifth degrees, and we're the top students at the schools under the teachers.
(Note: I'm not saying this out of ego, but to pre-emptively defend the school. I've advanced very quickly for my school -- far more quickly than just about anyone else except the teachers. In high school and college, I didn't have a ton of hobbies. All I pretty much did was Kenpo -- and I have an excellent memory and a history of athletics. So eleven years = fifth degree black belt is not a normal yardstick or timeline for my school. We are not "a black belt school" or anything, and we currently have only two students above first degree black belt -- me and my buddy, the other fifth-degree.)
There are a ton of different martial art styles, and a ton of different reasons for taking martial arts. Your art being represented in the UFC has little to do with whether it's valid, or whether it's not valid. Having done some Jujitsu on the side, I can say that it helped my Kenpo a lot, giving me a few options I didn't have from pure Kenpo training. The UFC is a sport, and it's possibly as close as you can get to a no-rules fight, but it's still a sport. You can't go for the groin and you can't go for the eyes, and you're fighting on ground that allows softer falls, and it's considered ungentlemanly to break people's limbs, which is all kind of limiting -- both for the Gracies and for other people. In the "real fight" situation, it's gonna go something like:
Boxer-type runs toward Grappler
Grappler tries to take down Boxer
1) Boxer gets in a punch, stops Grappler from shooting in, and then hits him a bunch more times, and continues to hit him until the Grappler is out
2) Boxer gets taken down, lands on pavement, gets a minor concussion, and then has all of his limbs broken systematically or is just choked out.
I'm not saying that the Gracies would lose if groin shots and eye gouges were allowed. I'm sure their style has defenses against that sort of thing. But using the UFC to determine the best martial art is silly.
Kenpo has gotten me in really good shape since I started taking it back in high school. It's also given me much better confidence (ah, geek pariah life), helped me be at peace with myself and all that other good enlightenment stuff, and gotten me out of fights. Since starting Kenpo, I've never been in a fight -- and I owe a lot of that to my training. Being able to stare at someone with the confidence of knowing you could spray them across the wall if necessary, and then telling them that this is silly and that there's no need to fight about it, is a whole lot more of what martial arts is about than going into a stupid fight you could have avoided, coming out with bruised knuckles, and thinking you're a badass. (YMMV, of course)
By the way, I know about most of the styles I've seen mentioned here, but not all. How about doing this with a format?
My style:
FOCUS: KICK/PUNCH VERSUS GRAPPLING
Mostly kick-punch at lower levels. At upper levels there are more takedowns, chokes, and traps (although we usually just break the limb instead of going for come-alongs)
RANGE: LONG VERSUS SHORT
Short for most of the time. We're more into elbows than really long-range kicks. Maybe medium, since we do a fair amount of punching and kicking, but we rarely have strikes that would push the person back away from us -- that just stops us from continuing to hit him.
STYLE: PRAGMATIC VERSUS ARTISTIC VERSUS SPORT
Possibly this one is a loaded term. I think that Kenpo is a nice-looking art when performed correctly. But the fact is, we're way pragmatic. We don't kick above the waist except in katas (sets, forms, dances, whatever you call 'em), and given equal opportunity, we're more likely to gouge someone's eyes than kick him in the head. We hit the groin,
(Please note: I'm trying not to load this one. I consider TKD to be very graceful and athletic and extremely cool-looking, for example, but the jumping kick was designed to work against opponents on horseback, and there aren't a ton of muggers on horseback these days. And it varies from school to school -- some TKD schools can be very pragmatic, but most are more into having a good workout and doing cool acrobatic stuff that is more into art and less into practical application, or into getting set for the next tournament -- none of which are bad things.)
Oh, and one last thing: What bugs me worse than anything else about some martial artists is the idea of how Master X studied Karate, Aikido, Jujitsu, Savate, and Kung Fu, and created a new martial art that uses the strengths of all the styles -- and Master X is 30. I completely agree with everyone who talks about one year of martial arts being good to get you into trouble. And practicing ten martial arts for 1-2 years each is like trying to string the first two chapters of ten different novels together to get a complete story. The best thing that anyone can do is study one martial art consistently and then augment it with a complementary style on the side. Do ten years of karate and three years of aikido, or ten years of jujitsu and three years of escrima. Think of it like multiclassing.
-Tacky
(Note: I'm not saying this out of ego, but to pre-emptively defend the school. I've advanced very quickly for my school -- far more quickly than just about anyone else except the teachers. In high school and college, I didn't have a ton of hobbies. All I pretty much did was Kenpo -- and I have an excellent memory and a history of athletics. So eleven years = fifth degree black belt is not a normal yardstick or timeline for my school. We are not "a black belt school" or anything, and we currently have only two students above first degree black belt -- me and my buddy, the other fifth-degree.)
There are a ton of different martial art styles, and a ton of different reasons for taking martial arts. Your art being represented in the UFC has little to do with whether it's valid, or whether it's not valid. Having done some Jujitsu on the side, I can say that it helped my Kenpo a lot, giving me a few options I didn't have from pure Kenpo training. The UFC is a sport, and it's possibly as close as you can get to a no-rules fight, but it's still a sport. You can't go for the groin and you can't go for the eyes, and you're fighting on ground that allows softer falls, and it's considered ungentlemanly to break people's limbs, which is all kind of limiting -- both for the Gracies and for other people. In the "real fight" situation, it's gonna go something like:
Boxer-type runs toward Grappler
Grappler tries to take down Boxer
1) Boxer gets in a punch, stops Grappler from shooting in, and then hits him a bunch more times, and continues to hit him until the Grappler is out
2) Boxer gets taken down, lands on pavement, gets a minor concussion, and then has all of his limbs broken systematically or is just choked out.
I'm not saying that the Gracies would lose if groin shots and eye gouges were allowed. I'm sure their style has defenses against that sort of thing. But using the UFC to determine the best martial art is silly.
Kenpo has gotten me in really good shape since I started taking it back in high school. It's also given me much better confidence (ah, geek pariah life), helped me be at peace with myself and all that other good enlightenment stuff, and gotten me out of fights. Since starting Kenpo, I've never been in a fight -- and I owe a lot of that to my training. Being able to stare at someone with the confidence of knowing you could spray them across the wall if necessary, and then telling them that this is silly and that there's no need to fight about it, is a whole lot more of what martial arts is about than going into a stupid fight you could have avoided, coming out with bruised knuckles, and thinking you're a badass. (YMMV, of course)
By the way, I know about most of the styles I've seen mentioned here, but not all. How about doing this with a format?
My style:
FOCUS: KICK/PUNCH VERSUS GRAPPLING
Mostly kick-punch at lower levels. At upper levels there are more takedowns, chokes, and traps (although we usually just break the limb instead of going for come-alongs)
RANGE: LONG VERSUS SHORT
Short for most of the time. We're more into elbows than really long-range kicks. Maybe medium, since we do a fair amount of punching and kicking, but we rarely have strikes that would push the person back away from us -- that just stops us from continuing to hit him.
STYLE: PRAGMATIC VERSUS ARTISTIC VERSUS SPORT
Possibly this one is a loaded term. I think that Kenpo is a nice-looking art when performed correctly. But the fact is, we're way pragmatic. We don't kick above the waist except in katas (sets, forms, dances, whatever you call 'em), and given equal opportunity, we're more likely to gouge someone's eyes than kick him in the head. We hit the groin,
(Please note: I'm trying not to load this one. I consider TKD to be very graceful and athletic and extremely cool-looking, for example, but the jumping kick was designed to work against opponents on horseback, and there aren't a ton of muggers on horseback these days. And it varies from school to school -- some TKD schools can be very pragmatic, but most are more into having a good workout and doing cool acrobatic stuff that is more into art and less into practical application, or into getting set for the next tournament -- none of which are bad things.)
Oh, and one last thing: What bugs me worse than anything else about some martial artists is the idea of how Master X studied Karate, Aikido, Jujitsu, Savate, and Kung Fu, and created a new martial art that uses the strengths of all the styles -- and Master X is 30. I completely agree with everyone who talks about one year of martial arts being good to get you into trouble. And practicing ten martial arts for 1-2 years each is like trying to string the first two chapters of ten different novels together to get a complete story. The best thing that anyone can do is study one martial art consistently and then augment it with a complementary style on the side. Do ten years of karate and three years of aikido, or ten years of jujitsu and three years of escrima. Think of it like multiclassing.
-Tacky
Last edited:
NoOneofConsequence
First Post
barsoomcore said:
Way to go! A friend of mine and I have a camera, some lights and a reflector. We're teaching ourselves to film and are hoping to have a short for Tropfest (Australian short film festival) by 2004. Best of success, tell us all how you work out.
I'm one hundred percent with you on this one. The style I learn, Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut, is an off shoot of Choy Lay Fut, a southern Chinese style. Buk Sing means "northern winning". In the gwoon (=school=dojo) where I studied, the portraits of all the masters back to the founder are on the wall. As you're taught the art so you're taught the history of the school and its traditions. This is my yardstick for a teacher of quality, a guy I would trust not to let senior students use me as a training tool (this happens a lot in my experience).
I guess that my only modification to your point is that teacher and style together mean something. If your instructor can't talk favourably about one of his teachers this is a massive warning sign. Martial arts is full of competent fighters with serious maturity issues and anger management problems. Never mind the style, find a good teacher.
I spent 6 and a half years training Tae Kwon Do (wtf).
Stopped doing that after I broke my arm at a match. And moving to another city due to going to university.
There and now I'm following Jui Jitsu for the past year and a half.
Although I don't know anything about Brazilian JJ or any other different style.
Stopped doing that after I broke my arm at a match. And moving to another city due to going to university.
There and now I'm following Jui Jitsu for the past year and a half.
Although I don't know anything about Brazilian JJ or any other different style.
Similar Threads
