Do you think themes have fulfilled their role?

[Evilhalfling]

I think themes are a step in the wrong direction.

In my game it really seems to promote just taking the theme for the associated powers. And really why take a defenderish theme, unless your a defender? It is one more aspect of the character to harmonize(optimize) rather than encouraging added depth.


Backgrounds do a much better job of defining the character, especially since I disallow "born under..." and only allow three benefit choices: skill training, +2 to a skill, or a free language. The two important things about the backgrounds are that the benefits are minor, and there are multiple ways to get the same result, so that you have a choice of flavor with the desired mechanic.

If themes offered a better variety of features, suited to different roles, they might work better for me. Next time I start a new campaign Ill discuss a party theme, or selection of themes, before character types are chosen. If this doesn't work, we will stick with backgrounds.

 

[Matt James]

Any one element isn't strong on its own. You need to have several factors to help define your character. Having a theme, with a strong background, is the way to go. Themes are additive to a character's persona, not subtractive. This is a major plus for the system.

 

[Mengu]

I find them to be useful. It is whatever the player wants it to be. Take 3 players with 3 different approaches to the game.

One of them doesn't care what "game element" it's coming from but wants to play a fighter fashioned after Minsc and yell "go for the eyes Boo!" Animal master is a perfectly fine solution for Boo.

One of them is all about the flavor of the campaign world, and wants to play a Spellscarred Paladin of Torm as member of the Shield of Kilgrave. Spellscarred Harbinger might be the perfect background for this player, giving him a tangible effect to his spellscar.

One of them wants to play an executioner assassin, and is looking for every game element that will boost his once per encounter big bang. He's ecstatic to find Mercenary background, which even has the added benefit of leaving his enemy prone at his feet, a respectable bonus to skills he cares about, and he figures what could be more appropriate than an assassin for hire. It's a win for this player as well.

I'd certainly say Themes fulfill *a* role. Whether it's their intended role or not, is debatable, but either way, I'd say they are a welcome game element.

 

[Saracenus]

I think themes hit their intended mark pretty well. I am least happy with the generic ones from eDragon, precisely because they are generic.

If I were using those in a game I am running I would refluff them to better fit into my game world so that players would feel a connection to the theme and the world they live in. Alternately, I would let the players refluff them for an element I haven't made in my game world.

I think the Dark Sun, Neverwinter, and the Iron Wolf Warrior (the one eDragon theme I like because its tied to the core world) themes are successful because they give a player a sense of being more than just a race and a class.

My two coppers,

 

[Herschel]

I like what they bring to the table and think they do a good job so long as you don't look at them from a purely mechanical standpoint. My Assault Swordmage is a protector of the weak. Class-wise he's a defender who punishes people for attacking his friends but the Guardian theme lets him actually step in and take that attack for those who need protecting. The intro power alone really helps flesh out his character. The level 10 is RP-only but still really fills the bill.

My Genasi Warlock from the Vilhon Wilds who is siphoning power from an imprisoned primordial of the Elemental Chaos and attempting to fight and control the plaguelands (and the Chaos within himself) is a Warlock, but the Primal Guardian theme really fleshes out his struggles and the level 5 daily is mechanically only okay but is perfect for fleshing out the elemental outbursts he has.

Etc. and so on.

 

[Ferghis]

Like most other posters, I like what the ability to thoroughly define a secondary aspect of the character. It's less defining than class, but more than multiclassing, and competes with, possibly beating, race as a defining part of a character. In this sense, it achieves its goal.

In the more narrowly defined terms that the OP set down, for me like for him or her, it sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. Themes like Scholar, Ordained Priest, the Animal one, and the one that gets hospitality and food from other nobles (Noble, perhaps?) give a great basis on which to flesh out more of the character. Others, not as much. However, even if you want to take this as a failure, the mere fact that it opens up the possibility is a success. Wizards will print more books and more themes, and more of them will suit fleshing out the character. Of course, if they print some must-take themes, that will probably kill the other options, but the regular nerfs in the updates keep me optimistic.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I think themes work best when they're exceedingly narrow.

Yeah, that flies in the face of most published mechanics; and it's an odd thing for me to say, since I feel like a lot of 3E and 4E mechanics are too specific as is. But in this case, I feel it's necessary. For a theme to really feel right, it has to fit not just the character, but the setting and even the specific campaign. I wouldn't mind if many of them were order/organization-specific, or if some of them were so specific that you could only have one in a given campaign. (I.e. you're not an heir to a lost empire, the the heir to a very specific lost empire.)

The themes we were assigned in Neverwinter are a step in that direction; I'd like to see more of them done that way, honestly.

 

[Matt James]

I think themes work best when they're exceedingly narrow.

Yeah, that flies in the face of most published mechanics; and it's an odd thing for me to say, since I feel like a lot of 3E and 4E mechanics are too specific as is. But in this case, I feel it's necessary. For a theme to really feel right, it has to fit not just the character, but the setting and even the specific campaign. I wouldn't mind if many of them were order/organization-specific, or if some of them were so specific that you could only have one in a given campaign. (I.e. you're not an heir to a lost empire, the the heir to a very specific lost empire.)

The themes we were assigned in Neverwinter are a step in that direction; I'd like to see more of them done that way, honestly.

Agreed.

 

[ourchair]

I think themes work best when they're exceedingly narrow.

Yeah, that flies in the face of most published mechanics; and it's an odd thing for me to say, since I feel like a lot of 3E and 4E mechanics are too specific as is. But in this case, I feel it's necessary. For a theme to really feel right, it has to fit not just the character, but the setting and even the specific campaign. I wouldn't mind if many of them were order/organization-specific, or if some of them were so specific that you could only have one in a given campaign. (I.e. you're not an heir to a lost empire, the the heir to a very specific lost empire.)

The themes we were assigned in Neverwinter are a step in that direction; I'd like to see more of them done that way, honestly.

Agreed.

Considering how Eberron finds ways to recontextualize class concepts into various professions ('inquisitive', 'bounty hunter', 'chronicler') I think it's a setting that could benefit with the Neverwinter-style of themes.

I think it's a mistake to think that themes should perfectly complement class roles, or be chosen TO complement class roles. Instead, I think that the themes should be very specific, but be capable of embracing multiple classes or be chosen to add functionality that you don't want think necessitates a total investment in a particular role.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

As others have said, themes are what you make of them. If you have a Fighter that picks the Templar theme, but you say he's not really a Templar, that's fine. Just like if you pick some background like Dragonbound Arcanist but don't really explain any of the flavor of that background in your character's backstory, that's fine too. However, don't blame the theme or the background for not adding enough in those cases, just because you're not taking the opportunity to work with them.

In an Ashes of Athas (Dark Sun) game that was being run at my local store, I decided to roll up an Ardent. I picked the Templar theme, as well as the Tyr Revolutionary background. I decided to use these not just for their mechanical benefits, but for their role playing potential as well. The adventure starts off with you meeting up with some Veiled Alliance contacts, so I made my character's backstory one of being a Tyrian Templar that was working as a double agent for the Veiled Alliance to assist in bringing down Kalak. I even, in some of the early encounters, attempted to use Bluff checks to try and assert my Templar authority to get things done (like convincing enemies that my squad and I were looking for the escapees...when in fact, we were the escapees!). These elements were created solely out of that background and theme, and really helped me build a fun character I enjoyed.

Another note on themes though, that I think many people ignore. Sure, you can play a Fighter and then take the Guardian or Gladiator theme, but I think that themes can do a lot more than that. You can use themes to explore other powers and abilities beyond your normal role. The Fighter in our Ashes of Athas game, for example, took the Elemental Priest theme. So on the one hand you had this whirling dervish of a Thri-Kreen Fighter using the Arena Fighter build, but then he had these Primal powers allowing him to summon spirits to aid us. Since they're defensive in nature, they do work with his existing role as a Defender, but they're not normal Defender powers and allowed him to do something new and unique. That, I think, is the true strength of the roles. They allow you to access new power sources, or new secondary/tertiary roles for your character.