Do you think there's a patent office in Khorvaire?

[darkelfo]

Tangent: If you invent a spell, can you copyright it?

It depends upon whether you have a legal system in place to enforce it and whether you could even get a copyright. U.S. copyrights are limited by the "functionality" doctrine which prevents the registration of "functional" aspects and works of manufacture. So you can register the dragon shaped hood ornament but not to the extent that it serves a functional purpose. How much of the spell is functional?

Introducing a legal system could be fun and encourage players to inovate. Rogues could get on the action in stealing secrets. It's limtied by your imagination. Why can't the Dragonmark houses develop treaties to enforce and honor their patents, for example. If its fun, great; if it's not, who cares?

 

[IronWolf]

I think part of the answer has to do with do *you* want there to be a patent office? If so, then just watch for some of the pitfalls coming up in this thread (as well as some of the pros) and go from there.

Now I am not very familiar with Eberron (I spend too much of my Eberron thoughts on why I don't like the warfroged ), but... What if your player took his idea to one of the Dragonmark houses to get their support behind it? Not quite a patent, but still lets your player have his fun within the definitions of the Khorvaire layout. (Again, not real familiar with Eberron so there may be an obvious reason that wouldn't work.)

 

[Klaus]

IMHO, patents in Eberron are enforced at swordpoint: whoever holds the sword has the patent.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

IMHO, patents in Eberron are enforced at swordpoint: whoever holds the sword has the patent.

Duh-dum-kssh!

 

[Speaks With Stone]

Oh, this thread is my fault. I perhaps didn't explain myself to Rel very well. I was just trying to make a deal with a baker to make fortune cookies. I just wanted to set up the deal in such a way as he had to pay me to make the fortunes and couldn't run off writing his own. I didn't necessarily want a patent on fortune cookies.

In fact - I'm going to try to get people all over Sharn buying fortune cookies (some with cartoons for the illiterate). Once they are everywhere, then I can start sneaking in slanderous rumors and incite sedition through fortune cookies.

I've already set up a college student to take all of the profits and write all the stuff. It pays his way through college and he'll take the fall if it ever gets traced back to the bakery.

If it sounds confusing it is - but I'm playing a halfling rogue/cleric of trickery. I'm trying to combine hospitality with chaos throughout the city.

I've also started some graffiti artists and I'm looking in to starting my own fraternity near the University. But none of those things need patents either.

 

[Kurotowa]

Absolutely not, as the setting is presented. Patents were a way to break the hold of the guilds, who had power by keeping all their inventions tightly held secrets within the guild. That's where trade secrets come from, secrets that the tradesmen defended from outsiders in order to protect their station. Patents do grant temporary state protected monopolies. But they also force you to make the details public, where others can learn and advance them, and after a short period the invention enters the public domain where everyone can use it. By forcing the guilds the release their secrets or receive no protection at all, their grip on technology was shaken off.

In Eberron, the Dragonmarked Houses ARE guilds in all but name. Factions of tradesmen with private technological (or magical) methods they keep secret from outsiders to maintain their power. Any government trying to push through patents would start a war between that country and all the Houses, as it would be very rightly seen as an attack on their second most important power base.

As always, it is possible to alter the setting to include them. But it advances the social situation several centuries and would have wide ranging impact.

 

[wingsandsword]

Add magic and it gets interesting. I recall a faerun AD&D spell (wizard mark? arcane mark?) which had disastrous results if you attempted to copy a wizard's mark. While that speaks more to the trademark world than to patent, its fodder for thought in the patent world.

That's not a spell, it's a feature of the setting, the Trifold Curse of Mystra. All Arcane spellcasters adopt a mark that is uniquely theirs. When an arcane spellcaster reaches 10th caster level, their mark falls under the divine protection of the Trifold Curse of Mystra. Anybody who intentionally copies a protected mark with the intent to decieve (spellcaster or not) must make three DC 15 Will saves or suffer the curse. The first is against sufffering 2 points of permanent strength drain, the second is against two points of permanent Intelligence drain and suffering the effects of a Feeblemind spell, and the third is against 2 points of wisdom drain and losing all bonus spells from high ability scores for one month.

It's generally held that subtle divine inspiration prevents mages from accidentally choosing a duplicate sign of an existing mage. It only applies to copying a mark with intent to decieve, like forging a signature. Just writing down the mark for a reference or example doesn't trigger the curse.

I think at one point it was represented as a separate spell, but it got folded into being a general aspect of the setting by 3rd Edition (FRCS page 28).

 

[Rel]

Oh, this thread is my fault. I perhaps didn't explain myself to Rel very well. I was just trying to make a deal with a baker to make fortune cookies. I just wanted to set up the deal in such a way as he had to pay me to make the fortunes and couldn't run off writing his own. I didn't necessarily want a patent on fortune cookies.

In fact - I'm going to try to get people all over Sharn buying fortune cookies (some with cartoons for the illiterate). Once they are everywhere, then I can start sneaking in slanderous rumors and incite sedition through fortune cookies.

I've already set up a college student to take all of the profits and write all the stuff. It pays his way through college and he'll take the fall if it ever gets traced back to the bakery.

If it sounds confusing it is - but I'm playing a halfling rogue/cleric of trickery. I'm trying to combine hospitality with chaos throughout the city.

I've also started some graffiti artists and I'm looking in to starting my own fraternity near the University. But none of those things need patents either.

This obviously sheds some light on the matter for those reading this thread. I had already largely divined the intent of Speaks' character after we had chatted the idea over a little more.

In any event, I agree with Kurotowa's assessment of the situation and I'm deciding that there is no "patent office" in Khorvaire.

 

[Storminator]

You could have a patent and trade secret system. Within House Cannith, frex, tinkers and makers can reveal their secrets to the House, which distributes the info within the guilds, granting a monopoly to the inventor. Then the House treats the accumulated patents as trade secrets, and doesn't let them out into general use.

In fact, I think I'm going to adopt this IMC. Now the schism in House Cannith is hugely important, because all three branches have the full patent archive, and can ignore the previous patent owners... oooh, my campaign just got a lot nastier...

PS

 

[Storminator]

Oh, this thread is my fault. I perhaps didn't explain myself to Rel very well. I was just trying to make a deal with a baker to make fortune cookies. I just wanted to set up the deal in such a way as he had to pay me to make the fortunes and couldn't run off writing his own. I didn't necessarily want a patent on fortune cookies.

In fact - I'm going to try to get people all over Sharn buying fortune cookies (some with cartoons for the illiterate). Once they are everywhere, then I can start sneaking in slanderous rumors and incite sedition through fortune cookies.

I've already set up a college student to take all of the profits and write all the stuff. It pays his way through college and he'll take the fall if it ever gets traced back to the bakery.

If it sounds confusing it is - but I'm playing a halfling rogue/cleric of trickery. I'm trying to combine hospitality with chaos throughout the city.

I've also started some graffiti artists and I'm looking in to starting my own fraternity near the University. But none of those things need patents either.

What you need is a House Sivis artist, so the fortunes are "authentic." If you could engineer a couple of bold predictions and make them come true, your authentic fortune cookies would become trusted. Pretty cool idea.

PS