D&D 5E (2024) Do you think they will add more races to PHB2024 to make up for dropping other stuff?

[Parmandur]

So, hat tip to Karl David Brown for his reverse engineering work (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/420200/Race-Design-for-DD-5th-Edition-Creating-New-PC-Species), this should be a balanced first Level Background Feat (Fey Ancestry and Trance are ribbons, so they can be dropped):

Elven Heritage
Prerequisite: Not an Elf

• Fey Ancestry: Advantage against charm/sleep
• Trance
• Keen Senses: Proficient in Perception
• Cantrip from Druid or Wizard Spell lists
• Fey Step: able to use Misty Step Spell once per Long Rest

 

[Remathilis]

I hope I'm not confusing the issue, but I'm not implying that anything is "non-acceptable", merely saying the the rules can handle the most common things, unique or rare things/rules should be up to the DM.

But it sets up a two-tier system: the "official" options, and the "unofficial" ones. a Half human/elf is going to be allowed by the multitude of DMs (it's in the PHB...), be AL legal, etc. The Half human/dwarf will not; it will be at the whim of the DM whose opinion will stem from multiple elements (depending on how open they are to mixing species and willing to homebrew traits for them), not be AL legal, etc. The net effect is that half-elves would be allowed at the majority of tables, the half-dwarf will not. Because once you codify certain choices are acceptable (because they appear as fully fleshed out species) you imply other choices are not.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But it sets up a two-tier system: the "official" options, and the "unofficial" ones. a Half human/elf is going to be allowed by the multitude of DMs (it's in the PHB...), be AL legal, etc. The Half human/dwarf will not; it will be at the whim of the DM whose opinion will stem from multiple elements (depending on how open they are to mixing species and willing to homebrew traits for them), not be AL legal, etc. The net effect is that half-elves would be allowed at the majority of tables, the half-dwarf will not. Because once you codify certain choices are acceptable (because they appear as fully fleshed out species) you imply other choices are not.

Which is why rolling the existing half-elf and half-orc into a custom heritage (no matter what rules for such you ultimately use) will make them less acceptable than they are currently.

 

[SkidAce]

But it sets up a two-tier system: the "official" options, and the "unofficial" ones. a Half human/elf is going to be allowed by the multitude of DMs (it's in the PHB...), be AL legal, etc. The Half human/dwarf will not; it will be at the whim of the DM whose opinion will stem from multiple elements (depending on how open they are to mixing species and willing to homebrew traits for them), not be AL legal, etc. The net effect is that half-elves would be allowed at the majority of tables, the half-dwarf will not. Because once you codify certain choices are acceptable (because they appear as fully fleshed out species) you imply other choices are not.

The trend towards "two-tier systems" is problematic; but the implication that something is not allowed is on the perceiver (IMO). Granted WotC could do a much better job to encourage tinkering and homebrewing, but thats another thread.

I think we agree they could never cover all the options (I've had a psionic dwarf race since 1st edition), so I guess its a matter of where they best could draw the line/versus effort to create the system/versus popularity....

Hence my opinion that the really rare combos be left to the DM.

 

[Remathilis]

Which is why rolling the existing half-elf and half-orc into a custom heritage (no matter what rules for such you ultimately use) will make them less acceptable than they are currently.

So?

Why should a human/elf or human/orc be a special case compared human/dwarf or human/tiefling? The only reason is legacy.

 

[Remathilis]

The trend towards "two-tier systems" is problematic; but the implication that something is not allowed is on the perceiver (IMO). Granted WotC could do a much better job to encourage tinkering and homebrewing, but thats another thread.

I think we agree they could never cover all the options (I've had a psionic dwarf race since 1st edition), so I guess its a matter of where they best could draw the line/versus effort to create the system/versus popularity....

Hence my opinion that the really rare combos be left to the DM.

There are just too many DMs who don't like tinkering with the rules. D&D is like cars or computers, for every enthusiast who likes to get under the hood and tinker with their kits, there are at least two who don't ever want to look under the hood and just want a car to drive or a computer to do work on. And for those DMs, if a half-elf has species traits and a half-dwarf does not, a half-elf exists and a half-dwarf does not.

 

[SkidAce]

There are just too many DMs who don't like tinkering with the rules. D&D is like cars or computers, for every enthusiast who likes to get under the hood and tinker with their kits, there are at least two who don't ever want to look under the hood and just want a car to drive or a computer to do work on. And for those DMs, if a half-elf has species traits and a half-dwarf does not, a half-elf exists and a half-dwarf does not.

In my experience the ratio is the other way around, but I see your point.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

So?

Why should a human/elf or human/orc be a special case compared human/dwarf or human/tiefling? The only reason is legacy.

"Legacy" is a huge reason in of itself. This is a 50 year old game with many sacred cows. People enjoy things for a reason. Tampering with them should not be done on a whim.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So?

Why should a human/elf or human/orc be a special case compared human/dwarf or human/tiefling? The only reason is legacy.

I know you think legacy is meaningless, but what is actually in the book matters to a lot of people, as well as how prominent different game elements are. How prominent something is in the genre (another legacy item) also matters. You can't really believe, based on the history of D&D, that presentation doesn't make a difference.

Besides, a tiefling is already a "human/tiefling". And you're going to having to so something about that boring as all get-out name convention too if you want people to care about of those combinations beyond min-maxing.

 

[Remathilis]

I know you think legacy is meaningless, but what is actually in the book matters to a lot of people, as well as how prominent different game elements are. How prominent something is in the genre (another legacy item) also matters. You can't really believe, based on the history of D&D, that presentation doesn't make a difference.

"Legacy" is a huge reason in of itself. This is a 50 year old game with many sacred cows. People enjoy things for a reason. Tampering with them should not be done on a whim.

Legacy is fine, but it shouldn't get in the way of innovation. Legacy was shouted when it was suggested dwarves could be wizards. Legacy was shouted when paladins no longer had to be Lawful Good. The game has survived those and more. It will survive half-elf moving from a dedicated race with a specific traits to an aesthetic choice used to foster roleplay.